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If there is no God then you just killed your own argument . What's it to you?
Without a deity it's nothing more then your cheep opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clickstack
You can't even say it's not right to lie to his spouse. What is a lie? What is a vow ?
It's all deluded without God
First off, We have been down this road quite a bit, and I have yet to see anyone come up with a rational and consistent explanation how God can be a meaningful source of an objective morality. I don't know that you want to tackle that, but so far, I generally see it boil down to "might makes right" or a psuedo-Lockean view of property as the basis for morality, but somehow believers don't want to see them in those terms...
But to refocus on your objections, yes it is my opinion. That is all I have. It is all you have. It is all anyone has. My opinion on morality is shaped by my upbringing, my culture, rational analysis, and my biology. So is yours. The difference between us is that I own it. I am willing to step back and look rationally at morality through history. It is clearly not some fixed thing. What has been considered right and wrong has changed over time, and across cultures. Even within religious traditions, it has changed. It seems clear to me that morality is a social construct, an implicit agreement between parties about how we will conduct ourselves. These implicit rules can and do change. They are important, even vital, for us as individuals and as societies, nations, and civilizations nonetheless.
But yes, in my opinion, lying, dishonesty, false dealing are of paramount importance, because the remove the free will, the independent choices of others. If I coerce you, I rob you of that. Likewise, if I decieve you, I am deliberately trying to limit your actions by withholding or fabricating information. I would argue that freedom, of conscience, of choice, of action, are some of the intrinsically most important things we have, so any limitations or infringements on these need to be carefully considered.
If Josh and his wife had both agreed, without coercion or deception, that he could see other women, then there is no harm, no foul within their relationship. But by trumpeting his supposed morality, and trying to impose it via force on others, even as he violated the same rules and principles he wanted to use against others, he has broken an implicit agreement with the public that he would actually live according to the principles he wishes to force on others.
When it's convenient for you then you stand on certain morals .
Then when you want it your way you thro them out.
That is a quite the accusation. Can you point to some indication that FlowerPower does not take vows and honesty seriously? Can you point to somewhere where this person has "thrown them out"? Or are you making things up about someone? You know, bearing false witness...
That is a quite the accusation. Can you point to some indication that FlowerPower does not take vows and honesty seriously? Can you point to somewhere where this person has "thrown them out"? Or are you making things up about someone? You know, bearing false witness...
-NoCapo
I can start with you .
You stated that morals change with time . That is a lie you adopted as an excuse .
God's morals never change .
Josh duggar is one of those others you are talking about . Or does it suddenly not apply?
How did I hurt Josh? He brought this mess on himself. HE is the one that lied about gays. HE is the one that lied about transgendered people. HE is the one that put himself on a pedestal as some moral authority. HE is the one that molested his sisters. HE is the one that cheated on his wife.
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