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1. How is it any worse when a non believer brings up an error or a problem by some Christians than you bringing up what you think is an error or problem by all atheists?
2. Looking at other data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate the results do not match what you claim. For example in another thread the percentage of Americans for who religion is important was 52 whereas in Canada it was only 27 and yet the suicide rates are 12.1 and 9.8 meaning more suicides in the States than Canada which goes against your claim plus even less religious countries than even Canada have lower rates yet China Norway, Finland and the Netherlands and countries less religious than Canada fall between the rates for US and Canada including Sweden, Cuba and Australia. I will grant you that the five countries that ranked the lowest are religious but all five are Muslim countries. If you really wanted to use religion to lower the suicide rate shouldn't you advocate for everyone to become Muslim like Saudi Arabia?
Freak France's rate is 0.2 percent higher than that of the US
Having posted what I did I am sure that lack of religion has some bearing on a person's state of mind when considering suicide however from the chart I linked to there must be lots of others and probably more important factors on this issue. The US also leads the other developed nations which are less religious in things like murders, infant deaths, CO2 released and amount of municipal waste per capita. I do not think one would relate religion vs non religion in those lists.
I would think that lower suicide and murder rates in Canada compared to the US would not be because we have less religion but more likely a better safety net and a smaller portion of the population stuck in poverty due to systemic reasons. So Jeff are you worried that as your country becomes less religious its suicide rate will increase to be more like Sweden instead of decrease to be more like Norway?
Most religions I have read on regard suicide as a mortal sin that will send you straight to Hell. Atheists obviously do not have this fear taught them. So while the religious might WANT to commit suicide at the same rate as the non religious , the fear of eternal punishment acts as a preventive to actual action on the desire .
What this indicates is not necessarily that theists are happier, have less suicidal thoughts and better mental health, but that fear of punishment constrains theists from acting while atheists have no such constraint .
Having posted what I did I am sure that lack of religion has some bearing on a person's state of mind when considering suicide however from the chart I linked to there must be lots of others and probably more important factors on this issue.
I think this is an important part of your post. Lack of religion could very well have some bearing on a person's mental state. The thing is, what is the reason for those people's mental state? Is it simply non belief, or something more?
They could be, like myself and many others, perfectly happy in their non belief. It could also be because of something that has happened in their life that caused them to turn away from religion, and this can cause all sorts of negative feelings. It could be that they are in high school, and they are gay or "not normal" and get constantly picked on, and realize praying doesn't help. It could be that they have a terminal illness and are simply angry, and refuse to believe in a God that can't or won't help. It could be that they came out as gay and their religious family disowned them and left them with nothing to live for, in their mind.
There are many reason why a person would commit suicide, and I can' t see being a non believer as one of those. As someone said earlier, if you need religious beliefs to keep from killing yourself, then you have a lot of problems that need to be addressed, and lack of religion ain't one of them.
1. How is it any worse when a non believer brings up an error or a problem by some Christians than you bringing up what you think is an error or problem by all atheists?
Turn about is fair play. IF people like Cupper are going to make it their mission to hunt down every Christian leader who screws up then I'm making it my mission to show the ugly side of atheism. The difference is your side ignores the vastly positive actions and elements of Christianity. I struggle to find any positives with atheists. If I saw atheist groups creating outreach programs and helping the needy instead of fighting this war against Christians with billboards and attacking religious freedom, maybe my perspective would change.
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Originally Posted by badlander
2. Looking at other data https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_suicide_rate the results do not match what you claim. For example in another thread the percentage of Americans for who religion is important was 52 whereas in Canada it was only 27 and yet the suicide rates are 12.1 and 9.8 meaning more suicides in the States than Canada which goes against your claim plus even less religious countries than even Canada have lower rates yet China Norway, Finland and the Netherlands and countries less religious than Canada fall between the rates for US and Canada including Sweden, Cuba and Australia. I will grant you that the five countries that ranked the lowest are religious but all five are Muslim countries. If you really wanted to use religion to lower the suicide rate shouldn't you advocate for everyone to become Muslim like Saudi Arabia?
Obviously other factors are in play. Many of the countries at the top of the suicide list suffer from great economic and social depression. But the spin that atheists love to promote is that religion is a scourge on society and a society free of religion would bring peace and happiness. Then why are France, Japan,
and Scandinavian countries not at the bottom of your list? More proof to back up my OP:
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RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found. CONCLUSIONS: Religious affiliation is associated with less suicidal behavior in depressed inpatients.
I would think that lower suicide and murder rates in Canada compared to the US would not be because we have less religion but more likely a better safety net and a smaller portion of the population stuck in poverty due to systemic reasons. So Jeff are you worried that as your country becomes less religious its suicide rate will increase to be more like Sweden instead of decrease to be more like Norway?
Suicide is the leading cause of death for young people in Canada. And that happens to be the most likely demographic to drop their religious faith.
Turn about is fair play. IF people like Cupper are going to make it their mission to hunt down every Christian leader who screws up then I'm making it my mission to show the ugly side of atheism. The difference is your side ignores the vastly positive actions and elements of Christianity. I struggle to find any positives with atheists. If I saw atheist groups creating outreach programs and helping the needy instead of fighting this war against Christians with billboards and attacking religious freedom, maybe my perspective would change.
Obviously other factors are in play. Many of the countries at the top of the suicide list suffer from great economic and social depression. But the spin that atheists love to promote is that religion is a scourge on society and a society free of religion would bring peace and happiness. Then why are France, Japan,
and Scandinavian countries not at the bottom of your list? More proof to back up my OP:
Suicide is the leading cause of death for young people in Canada. And that happens to be the most likely demographic to drop their religious faith.
I did mention in the another thread about the good work that the local churches are doing with the Syrian refugees in my city. It is not my fault that there are not many threads in this forum that are discussing of whether nor not churches are doing some good. And I am not about to start one as I have only started five threads in the whole time I have been here, AND NOT OF THOSE KNOCKING CHRISTIANS. Sorry I had to yell as getting tired of repeating the same thing to you.
There are very few atheists groups to begin with, we not a group like a church group is meeting regularity with each other. There are groups that help youth like science camps, doctors without borders is not religious, neither are the guides and scouts or cadet groups. That you can find no difference between an organization and some individuals is not my fault.
There are more anti atheists billboards out there than ones put out by atheists, there are preachers in pulpits preaching an anti atheists agenda and some who claim atheists are parasites and yet I have never started a thread about them because most Christians are not like those jerks but when you bring up an atheists billboard as an attack and ignore the ones that claim that atheists are traitors to the country again no my fault.
Three out of four youths in Canada are from families in which faith has little importance so your assumption that these are people who are losing faith and then kill themselves is only self serving. The reason teens in Canada commit suicide are the same reasons they do so in other developed countries, religion or lack thereof have little to do with it. First Nations teens are more likely to kill themselves than the average Canadian, are you claiming that this group is most likely the group to be losing their religious beliefs other the average Canadian?
If religion and non religion had such a strong bearing on suicides then one would expect to find a correlation on the list. That was my whole point, countries less religious than the US are found above and below it. Several countries less religious than the US and the US falls in between the two. I never stated any correlation between religion and suicide so why would I expect to see the most non religious countries all on the bottom?
The list that I supplied in no way backs up your claim, if it did all the non religious countries would be on the top and all the non religious countries would be on the bottom whereas the list shows no such sorting at all. As far as the bottom five nations, perhaps they are so against suicide that they do not keep accurate records or perhaps the young people have alternatives to a life with no meaning such as ISIS or flying a plane into a tall building.
You are well suited to your mission, you have a distaste for all atheists and have problems seeing the difference between individuals and groups. Have fun.
I certainly know why. This is a glaring consequence when you kick faith and God out of the culture and society. We are seeing a rapid increase in suicide at the same time we are seeing an increase of people leaving the church and faith. Furthermore, you can find high suicide rates in countries like Japan where religion is not a part of the culture.
The ugly truth is that atheism and suicide are tied at the hip.
No, you don't. You're just wallowing in ignorance yet again.
You could have checked this by examining the long-term suicide trend. Well, since you didn't think to do so (or maybe refused because you suspected the data wouldn't correlate with a decrease in belief), here is that data: Death Rates for Suicide, 1950
See? The suicide rate is no lower than it was in 1980. Or 1970. Or 1960. Or 1950. All times when the rates of professed belief and church attendance were higher than now. Were your vacuous and simplistic "More God = Less Suicide" assertion true, there should have been a lower suicide rate back in the 1950s, when people dutifully marched off the church and belief was more widespread. But there was no such thing.
During the long time-span of decreasing religious belief, the suicide rate has fluctuated up and down. You are ignoring the downward cycles (either intentionally or just cluelessly) and touting only the upward cycles.
Fail, Jeff. Complete and total fail on your part. Again.
It indicates that suicide rates are increasing more for women than for men. We had some posts last year that indicated that more men than women are atheists. The logical inference is that atheism is not the cause of the increase.
We have a lot of veterans with under treated Traumatic Brain Injuries and PTSD. I would think that would have to be a factor.
I struggle to find any positives with atheists. If I saw atheist groups creating outreach programs and helping the needy instead of fighting this war against Christians with billboards and attacking religious freedom, maybe my perspective would change.
That is because you probably haven't bothered to look....Let's put this myth to rest right now.....There are plenty of secular charities...Atheists generously give, while Christians waste money on their churches etc..
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Donations to religious congregations — primarily for religious activity or spiritual development — represent about two fifths of household giving nationally…
Suicide is the leading cause of death for young people in Canada. And that happens to be the most likely demographic to drop their religious faith.
The highest rate of suicide in Canada for any age group is age 50 to 54....For young people aged 1 to 34, accidents were the leading cause of death..... Highlights
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