Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Huh, well, Jews do not recruit, but to each her/his own.
This is a very good point, when "The Word" to them is the Old Testament only.
There must not be anywhere in the OT that instructs one to evangelize or proselytize, and try to convert the masses.
my observation: again this focus is entirely on humans and God is not in the equation at all
again your words:
"nothing really any more or less than our lives and social intercourse should be based on a vested concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation"
Funny how that works, isn't it? Sort of reminds me of when every man did that which was right in his own eyes. Peace
This is a very good point, when "The Word" to them is the Old Testament only.
There must not be anywhere in the OT that instructs one to evangelize or proselytize, and try to convert the masses.
Yes, I think it is a N.T. construct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
I am not a Jew.
No harm, no foul if you are or are not... but what do you call followers of the Jewish Messiah?
Nor are the people you are trying to convince that the Jewish religion is God's religion, and it's not for them either. They have always made a place for wannabe's, but they don't have room for "Messianic."
I guess I fail when I interact with Christians because they somewhat already believe, but given the chance to witness Christ to a non believer is something that should be done with long suffering, great patience, love, meekness, gentleness, and this is just not what I see from Christians interacting with people who don't believe in Messiah. They get offended right off the bat it seems, but the idea would be long suffering to witness a change in you that you have become a very loving person who shows the love of Christ to people who do not believe in Christ.
I think there is a very logical and very human reason why the nature of Christianity and, indeed, the attitude of many Christians have changed over the centuries.
You see, back in the days when Christians prayed for their enemies and wanted to martyr themselves for Jesus -- back in the days when Christians actually were meek -- they were a tiny minority in a largely pagan world.
Now that Christians essentially preside over the most powerful and influential nation in all of human history, they've given up being meek and instead turned to aggressive, self-righteous, often sanctimonious bullying.
No, I'm not saying all Christians do this but I think we all know the type -- the ones who want to ban gay marriage, put prayer back into our public schools, the ones who go positively ape if the president fails to mention God in every last speech (especially if that president is a Democrat), the ones who want to censor damn near everything from Harry Potter to Catcher in the Rye, the ones who wouldn't mind at all if America became a theocratic fascist state as long as *their* version of *their* religion is calling all the shots and making choices *for* you, the ones who try to disguise fascism by claiming it's love. These are the Christians who disguise fascism by calling it love -- they think *they* know best and you're too stupid to make your own choices. What's worse is that they want to remove as many choices as possible so the only path in life you have is to be just like them. Most all religions at their cores are about conformity and obedience, the perfect attributes of a people governed by fascism.
Like with any individual or organization, the siren call of power corrupts them, and this holds true with many Christians now that they are the overwhelming majority in the Western world. Now they don't have to be content with being martyrs -- rather, they can now make martyrs of others.
You can immediately spot the kind of Christian I'm talking about because they are the ones who scream from the rooftops about how they're being persecuted and oppressed whenever they don't get their way. They flail about making fatuous arguments about how their inability to deny others their freedoms somehow violates *their* freedom to practice their religion. Whether it's something big like the gay marriage controversy or something small like a local Christian group demanding that certain books be pulled from the shelves of the county library, the intent is always the same: They expect and demand that every man, woman, and child obey *their* rules and abide by *their* wishes; to do anything less than acquiesce to their religion means you are oppressing, persecuting, and attacking them
There are enough of these Christians in this country, those that honestly believe that the Bible rather than the Constitution should be the ultimate legal authority, to pose a genuine threat. We've already had some religious loons come damn close to winning the Republican primaries.
In any event, when any group sharing a common belief system obtains power, political clout, cultural influence, and a bit of military power, all too often the first thing that group does is to try and reshape the entire world in their image. That's why Christians no longer behave as they did living in pagan Rome.
That's like recruiting for the other team, isn't it?
Why would you promote the Jewish messiah if you're not a Jew?
It goes back to my original post, actually. Most Christians call Jesus their savior and messiah -- except when they say this, they're (often unknowingly) referring to Hebrew prophecies found in the Old Testament.
If Jesus is the true messiah, he would be the savior of the Jews, not the gentiles (the Christians following the Christ Cult). Yet the Jews don't believe that Jesus *is* their messiah -- which means Jesus isn't the messiah of anything or anyone. There is no mention of a general, all-purpose messiah for everyone since the entire Old Testament was written by Hebrews for Hebrews. The Christ Cult merely hijacked it and tacked on their own ideology and philosophies.
Which means if you're not a Jew yet promote the Jewish messiah, you must be promoting someone that hasn't arrived on this planet yet.
Well, since I DID vote "no excuse," I am a target, but thank you for being open to the possibility that the seriously dysfunctional attitude you outline (which IS prevalent) might not apply to me. My position is based on the idea that "The Word" is really quite simple: nothing really any more or less than the idea that our lives and social intercourse should be based on a vested concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation. This does not mean that everyone should get what they want, but that ALL needs should be balanced when action is needed. Such a simple "message" is not by any means limited to the life and ministry of the man called Jesus, but is the message of what I call the Christ to all ages and peoplke who will tune into it. I think that it was most clearly articulated by Jesus in life and ministry though there may be some clinkers in the report of that ministry.
As for "judgement," it would be about receiving the consequences of ouractions and attitudes with the hope that we can come to realize the value of that "love" that IS "The Word."
If you are interested in any more explanation than that you might check my posts in this thread and I will be happy to answer questions. As a general background, you might be interested in "liberal" Quaker thought as briefly described at religioustolerance.org.
Well, I can see where you're coming from. As I figured after your response to me that you probably didn't have a "traditional" approach to the "Word."
More times than not, Christians regard the "Word" as being the Bible -- especially the threadbare topic of how God gave his only begotten son so that we may be forgiven and blah blah ... and the only way into Heaven is through Jesus and more blah blah ... and if you don't repent on your knees for every last silly little thing you've ever done wrong, there's a permanent backyard barbecue waiting for you at Satan's house.
Societies seem to discover your version of the "Word" regardless of time, place, and culture since without it societies and, indeed, civilization could not survive. Unfortunately, there are plenty of individuals, however, who are more interested in so-called "enlightened self interest" (i.e. me first and to hell with everyone else). In fact, there are enough of these people that humanity has essentially stagnated in many crucial areas. It would seem your idea of the "Word" is losing ground to greed, avarice, selfishness, materialism, and the acquisition of wealth and power.
Too bad, really ... because I'm not one bit opptimistic about humanity's future. Not one single bit.
... ... because I'm not one bit opptimistic about humanity's future. Not one single bit.
My observation is that most atheists are not. They often have this same bleak view you state. And get annoyed at people who are optimistic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
