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No.
Because ,what you rather need is try to understand the very basic English vocabulary before we even move forward.
Open a dictionary and find the meaning of "Faith".
Here is one.
"Belief that is not based on proof"
There is no more argument left after this. BECAUSE, faith does NOT require proof - AND - if you don't need proof then you don't run after "data" either. How hard is is to understand?
But yes, what you CAN do is to take it up with all the dictionaries in the world, and request them to remove the word "Faith" from the dictionary because there is no such thing exist.
ok go. I am at a disadvantage on a forum.
But I do ask you to ask people you talk to if its more reasonable to form beliefs with no evidence or is it more reasonable to form belief based on observations.
or
if its more reasonable to have faith based no observations or is it more reasonable to have faith based on observations.
And again, you are conflating proof with evidence. No one is asking for "proof" or 100% guarantees." I also don't see anyone saying "if it's not my work, it doesn't count" (other than you).
Most would settle for just a smidgen of evidence. In the meantime, zero evidence doesn't give anyone much to go on.
From demanding “Verifiable evidence to prove the existence of God or else I don’t believe” - to - oh no, no one asking proof or 100% guarantee.
Ironic, isn’t it?
For the nth time, faith based belief in God is *NOT* based on evidence - so no point in demanding the evidence of God.
The problem you guys seem to have is an understanding, meaning and the concept behind the word “faith”.
As I stated earlier, you can try to get the word “faith” removed from the dictionary and from the English language if you believe no such exists.
But I do ask you to ask people you talk to if its more reasonable to form beliefs with no evidence or is it more reasonable to form belief based on observations.
or
if its more reasonable to have faith based no observations or is it more reasonable to have faith based on observations.
let them decide. and ask them honestly too.
Look, everyone may have a different journey as to how they formed their faith - and I can't speak for all. I can't judge them all. I think there isn't a one size fits all rule to form a faith.
In my personal opinion, the way it works is, and I have posted this many times.
Quote:
A simple and straight start is to first empty your brain from any religious or Atheistic indoctrination.
Start fresh with a blank slate, and use your own intelligence and ponder upon your surroundings, these trillions of processes and all this design in nature , the stars, planets and their motion etc - just look around and ponder.
The question then is,
Is the entire universe and everything in it came together by itself?
If your brain, intelligence and logic tells you, that yes, the entire universe and EVERYTHING in it came together all by itself, then you are perhaps an Atheists.
If your answer is, I don’t know AND I don’t care - then perhaps you are an agnostic
However, if your answer is something like, “I don’t know but I want to know” - OR - “No, the entire universe and everything in it can probably not come together all by itself, and there is probably a force/creator behind all this then you have cross over the line from the non-believers camp into the believers camp.
The obvious question then becomes, “which one is it?”
You then start the journey in an effort to identify this creators, THIS FORCE that some call God, * NOT * by an evidence but by his signs. You judge the signs and reach a conclusion whether to accept them or reject them. It's 100% your own call.
Then you will follow a simple rule,
The God of any and every proclaimed religion will be judged by his message towards humanity and his message towards me i.e. The Book of that particular religion under your research.
You will then start studying and pondering upon the holy scriptures of any religion of your choice, and you will go one by one thru all religions who claim to have God’s message in the form of a book.
And here is the key that requires a little bravery.
While you go thru the holy text of every religion, you will periodically ask yourself this key question. “Is it the truth?”
And you will let your heart honestly answer the question.
Remember, the brain does the research and pondering part, but the call to faith comes from the heart.
If your heart says No (whether you are studying the Bible or Gita or Talmud or whatever) then move on to the next one.
If your heart says, Yes and you want to know more then ask your questions from the scholars of that faith only. (Just as you will consult a doctor for medical advice, and not your postman).
Believing in God is faith and faith is NOT based on evidence or else it’s not faith.
You can do all the research you want, your logic, your intelligence and your common sense will take you to a certain point and then they will leave you alone, because remember, after ALL the research and all the study to gain the confidence, the final leap in the faith is blind.
Nobody actually “knows” who and what’s out there - we are ALL playing a game of probabilities.
We have put our stakes after doing our own research by using our own intelligence and logic because the clock on EVERYONE is ticking. We will probably know the truth only after our deaths.
Look, everyone may have a different journey as to how they formed their faith - and I can't speak for all. I can't judge them all. I think there isn't a one size fits all rule to form a faith.
In my personal opinion, the way it works is, and I have posted this many times.
I guess that depends on how you are defining "a faith". How can a dozen people take the teachings of christianity and come up with a dozen different takes on it. That's way too nebulous, and in my view tends to support the idea that these religions are not legitimate.
I guess that depends on how you are defining "a faith". How can a dozen people take the teachings of christianity and come up with a dozen different takes on it. That's way too nebulous, and in my view tends to support the idea that these religions are not legitimate.
God has the ability to work individually with different individuals. You are attempting to simplify God, and for some reason you can't seem to understand that everyone's faith is personal. Religious faith is not something that can be defined in a book. The Bible just contains a few poorly written examples of faith.
But the spirit of God is more real than anything a book could explain. Unfortunately for you, all you have is a book with limited info.
God has the ability to work individually with different individuals. You are attempting to simplify God, and for some reason you can't seem to understand that everyone's faith is personal. Religious faith is not something that can be defined in a book. The Bible just contains a few poorly written examples of faith.
But the spirit of God is more real than anything a book could explain. Unfortunately for you, all you have is a book with limited info.
Good. Let's totally reject the bible and, therefore, eliminate all the religions that are based on it.
Good. Let's totally reject the bible and, therefore, eliminate all the religions that are based on it.
Are you for real? Good luck!
People still want that community and fellowship with each other. That's a healthy part of being a human being. The Bible provides a way for that to happen. It contains stories of people united together in common faith. People can work together in spite of their differences because they are able to place others above themselves, and focusing on the needs of others is natural and good for a person to do.
Atheism is unnatural.
It's really sad that some people are so blind to that.
People still want that community and fellowship with each other. That's a healthy part of being a human being. The Bible provides a way for that to happen. It contains stories of people united together in common faith. People can work together in spite of their differences because they are able to place others above themselves, and focusing on the needs of others is natural and good for a person to do.
Atheism is unnatural.
It's really sad that some people are so blind to that.
There are many ways to get community and fellowship. Go to the YMCA. Join meetup.com. Go to the senior center. It may flabbergast you to know that people in non-christian countries don't rely on a christian church for community and fellowship.
Do christians always throw in an insult in every conversation? That doesn't seem very fellowship-like. The christians I know don't. Maybe you're not getting the right kind of fellowship.
Wait a minute.
Are you saying you have a verifiable evidence that God does not exist?
Actually this goes on you.
Tell me what's this?
You probably don't know.
So next time when you have a headache, place the pill under a scientific microscope and verify with the evidence that it's actually ibuprofen before popping it in your mouth. The above image will help you.
But then again, you probably don't have the qualification to even know how to verify the structure of ibuprofen from an image to what's under the microscope - do you?
Now, don't come back and tell me that you trust the scientific generals and research, and FDA and whatever - because then, you will be using FAITH on what that wrapper says with what's inside the packet. Otherwise, how would you know it's not poison?
Now you may come back and say, I have "data" - which is, I have used headache pills 100's of times and it has worked most of the time.
IMO, this "data" is not a "verifiable evidence" that what's inside the wrapper is not poison - unless I am qualified to put the pill under the microscope and verify it with my own knowledge that the chemical compound of the pill is of ibuprofen.
You should not use any medication at all unless you verify the evidence of what's inside the packet is ACTUALLY what's written on the label.
It's not me, it's actually YOU who use faith (no religious type) many, many times a day. You do A LOT of things by putting your FAITH on someone else's words and their claims.
You confuse faith with trust and probability that is based on verifiable evidence and experience. When we get on an aeroplane to travel to the other side of the world, we do not take it of 'faith' that we will get to our destination. What we do is examine the verifiable evidence and the verifiable evidence is that 99.9% of aeroplanes reach their destination. We don't test a chair before we sit on it because the verifiable evidence is that 99.9% of chairs do no not collapse when people sit on them.
So our decisions are taken based on what is verifiable, known, trusted and proven. Contrast that with 'faith' which is ... 'believing that something is true when there is no verifiable evidence to show that it is and, in many cases, verifiable evidence to show that it isn't true.' So IF the verifiable evidence was that 99.9% of aeroplanes crashed before reaching their destinations but we still got on them or 99.9% of chairs collapsed when people sat on them but we still sat on them, well THEN we would be operating on 'faith' if we still flew on aeroplanes or sat on chairs without testing them first... because we are believing something is true when their is no verifiable evidence that it is or verifiable/testable evidence that it isn't true.
Do you not see the difference between believing/accepting that something is true based on verifiable, testable evidence and believing that something is true on 'faith'?
So to answer your post. No. I do not take my morning pills based on faith. I take them based on the experience, knowledge and verifiable evidence that they have been tested and analysed, gone through vigorous safety and quality control and that the same pills have been taken by me for some 20 years without incident. Now it's possible that some terrorist has contaminated the batch I am going to take...but is the possibility of that high enough to have me taking them on 'faith'? Of course not!
Last edited by Rafius; 12-22-2018 at 11:45 PM..
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