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All but the most fundamental religous zealots should by now realize that Heaven and Hell are not actual locations but rather anitquated terms for the respective spiritual states a person may experience after physical death.
To be in "Heaven" after one's life on Earth is finished is to simply have your "Eternal Mind" become melded with, or become part of, the "Godhead"--or whatever you want to call it. The eternal, supreme intelligence that created and sustains the Universe.
There is no resemblance of this Godhead to the fictional, capricious, homicidal and petty God of the Old Testament. The real Godhead is deistic, rather than theistic. It doesn't keep tabs on your sins and doesn't give a fig whether or not you attended church. It's above all that. It's more of an intelligent forcefield than anything. And if your conscience is clear and you have elevated your spirit level by loving and helping others while you were alive on Earth, your Eternal Mind has sufficient force and "frequency" to meld with this Power after you perish. Hell? Another myth. The closest thing to Hell one can experience after death is to simply be disconnected and apart from this Godhead. Out in the Great Void. All alone, in the vast vacuum and emptiness which comprises 99% of the Universe. Alone with all your negative thoughts and memories of a misspent life on Earth.
Hell is no sort of burning lake, and heaven is not some sort of bucolic paradise with gold-paved streets.
They are both simply the opposite ends of the spectrum of the Eternal State of Mind. It's all about energy, guys. Residual energy and and cosmic balance and laws of physics which demand balance and re-actions for actions.
Peace.
I can see where you're coming from, except...
You say we need to elevate our conciousness through LOVE. If the Eternal Mind can be melded with through love, then it follows that LOVE is vital to the Eternal Mind's very nature. And if that is the case, I find it very difficult (impossible) to believe that the Eternal Mind would allow ANYone to remain in a Great Void being tormented by negative thoughts and aloneness for eternity. That simply does not line up with what LOVE IS, imo.
Location: Kowaniec, Nowy Targ, Podhale. 666 m n.p.m.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893
This is what most Christians know. But as for me, I don't say it here or in real life. Because I know that when I am outside I am representing for fellow Christians. And I when I say that to a person or to a crowd that this will happen to them if they do this/that, then most of them will label Christians as critical and judgmental people. So I don't do it. But I don't have to. Most unbelievers know exactly what is going to happen to them, they just choose not to take action for it. Please tell me why most Atheist know more bible verses off the top of their head than I do! So I make no excuses for them. The only reason unbelievers don't believe is because they have a fear of hell. All of them. They fear hell so they decide to reject the notion of a God and Heaven/Hell because they know the consequences that the bible foretells about it. And they STILL choose to not believe. Well, that's their fish to fry. I got my own life and salvation to worry about.
And the Jews? Well the majority of Jewish religion don't believe in Jesus and not to forget the ancient Jews killed him so I don't know what their destiny is. Don't ask us. Ask God. But know they are not excused before anyone else just because of the holocaust. Millions of Blacks, Mexicans, and Native Americans went through slavery and genocide to even survive to this point. So in my personal view we are all one and the same. No one is excused before the Lord.
I know a lot of very devout Christians that go to mass every Sunday, in my circle of friends, none of whom believes this. I would not like to say that "most" Christians believe this, not even most proddies.
Unless, according to some definition, the only true "Christians" are the ones who follow these evangelical churches, in which case you could probably say it is the case...
You say we need to elevate our conciousness through LOVE. If the Eternal Mind can be melded with through love, then it follows that LOVE is vital to the Eternal Mind's very nature. And if that is the case, I find it very difficult (impossible) to believe that the Eternal Mind would allow ANYone to remain in a Great Void being tormented by negative thoughts and aloneness for eternity. That simply does not line up with what LOVE IS, imo.
Sorry, I guess I'm not doing to good a job of explaining my opinion.
There is no "allow" with the Eternal Mind. Because the word implies something that is discerning and judges. Or, as I've said before, is "theistic" rather than "deistic."
But I don't think that's the case. I believe it's all science and physics. Like, say, a radio transmitter and a receiver. If your mind and conscience are of the sufficient level of frequency--which can be attained by being a postive and loving and helpful person, and yes, following the messages of Jesus--then it can by "picked-up" by the Godhead, and you will become One.
A disturbed, negative, sinful mind will not have such a low "frequency" or "signal" that the Godhead/Receiver will not recognize it.
A radio receiver does not "allow" or "disallow" a signal to be picked up; it simply can or cannot due to the compatabiity of the signal.
Sorry, I guess I'm not doing to good a job of explaining my opinion.
Actually, I think you did a really good job of explaining... based on what you believe, however, I just disagree with some of your conclusions .
Quote:
There is no "allow" with the Eternal Mind. Because the word implies something that is discerning and judges. Or, as I've said before, is "theistic" rather than "deistic."
But I don't think that's the case. I believe it's all science and physics. Like, say, a radio transmitter and a receiver. If your mind and conscience are of the sufficient level of frequency--which can be attained by being a postive and loving and helpful person, and yes, following the messages of Jesus--then it can by "picked-up" by the Godhead, and you will become One.
A disturbed, negative, sinful mind will not have such a low "frequency" or "signal" that the Godhead/Receiver will not recognize it.
A radio receiver does not "allow" or "disallow" a signal to be picked up; it simply can or cannot due to the compatabiity of the signal.
Imo, love by it's very nature is relational and cannot be impersonal in the way you explain. Even the term you use to describe it - Eternal MIND - says it is an actual Consciousness, not just a frequency. Love, by it's very nature (especially if you accept the biblical definition of it) is ACTIVE, not passive. And, in that regard, I believe an Eternal Mind whose nature is that of LOVE would, in a very profound and powerful way, be acting upon all other beings with consciousness to raise them to It's own frequency. Again, looking to the biblical definition of LOVE ... it NEVER FAILS.
Actually, I think you did a really good job of explaining... based on what you believe, however, I just disagree with some of your conclusions .
Imo, love by it's very nature is relational and cannot be impersonal in the way you explain. Even the term you use to describe it - Eternal MIND - says it is an actual Consciousness, not just a frequency. Love, by it's very nature (especially if you accept the biblical definition of it) is ACTIVE, not passive. And, in that regard, I believe an Eternal Mind whose nature is that of LOVE would, in a very profound and powerful way, be acting upon all other beings with consciousness to raise them to It's own frequency. Again, looking to the biblical definition of LOVE ... it NEVER FAILS.
I see your point. And I'd LOVE to believe (no pun intended) that the Eternal Mind of Godhead or God or whatever, does indeed have some sort of compassion and "feelings" for us, as opposed to just being a cold, hard, scientific thing like some sort of electromagnetic field or "aura."
And since I also believe that Jesus, the teacher, was tapped-into this higher power and was trying to explain how we can do it as well, and he did speak of "God" in fatherly, loving terms, I might give you this point in our debate.
I just have difficulty working-out the science part of that scenario.
Then again, didn't Paul once say something about the ideas of supposedly wise men being exposed as folly? LOL.
Physical death is a fact. What happens after that is unknown.
Without working eyes you can't see.
Without working ears you can't hear.
Without a working brain you can't think.
Death results in, is caused by, and is synonymous with a non-working brain.
From the above we can logically infer that after death you will no longer be able to think.
That idea that we could continue thinking after we die is a desperate attempt to find a rational to believe we can exists as sapient beings forever. It makes no sense and is supported by no logic.
So we do know what happens after we die... we rot.
What is the ultimate destiny of non-believers? Do Christians believe that they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire? If so I personally think that at least this kind of Christianty is totally discredited. What about Jewish people who don't believe? Will there be some Jews who were murdered by the Nazis in or destined for this Lake of Fire?
I am always puzzled by the use of non believer. To the Christian all who don't believe in Jesus are non believers. To the Muslim all who don't believe in Allah are infidels.
Yet many many people believe in a creator/ G-d and they don't see themselves as unbelievers.
I find it unthinkable that there are people who believe all who died in the holocaust are in hell and those who were responsible for the deaths of the millions are in heaven if they just accept Jesus, even if it is on their death bed.
This is what most Christians know. But as for me, I don't say it here or in real life. Because I know that when I am outside I am representing for fellow Christians. And I when I say that to a person or to a crowd that this will happen to them if they do this/that, then most of them will label Christians as critical and judgmental people. So I don't do it. But I don't have to. Most unbelievers know exactly what is going to happen to them, they just choose not to take action for it. Please tell me why most Atheist know more bible verses off the top of their head than I do! So I make no excuses for them. The only reason unbelievers don't believe is because they have a fear of hell. All of them. They fear hell so they decide to reject the notion of a God and Heaven/Hell because they know the consequences that the bible foretells about it. And they STILL choose to not believe. Well, that's their fish to fry. I got my own life and salvation to worry about.
And the Jews? Well the majority of Jewish religion don't believe in Jesus and not to forget the ancient Jews killed him so I don't know what their destiny is. Don't ask us. Ask God. But know they are not excused before anyone else just because of the holocaust. Millions of Blacks, Mexicans, and Native Americans went through slavery and genocide to even survive to this point. So in my personal view we are all one and the same. No one is excused before the Lord.
The majority of Jews follow the same religion Jesus did who was a Jew and practiced as a Jew, lived as a Jew. He followed the Torah, celebrated the same holidays Jews did and still do. He didn't go into a church but a synagogue. He would not even recognize a church but he would a synagogue. He wore a prayer shawl and spoke Aramaic and Hebrew.
Yes you believe all non Christians will go to hell.
What you need to understand is that those of us who are not Christians absolutely know beyond a shadow of a doubt that what we believe is as real to us as what you believe.
Most folks who are knowledgeable about the Bible and Christianity and in what they have learned made a decision as to what they believe to be true. To have grown to understand that what they were taught was not true and to be able to move beyond it. Most people who have grown up in a religion that says this is the only truth and you will burn in hell if you don't believe may find it hard to walk away, but some do.
To choose a faith out of asking the questions, not fear is the way to go because then you have found a way to spiritual wholeness. To be religious out of fear and to believe only you and those like you are somehow saved is ridiculous.....
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