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Old 09-08-2014, 11:41 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,511 posts, read 62,235,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red On The Noodle View Post
What about it one spouse gets very sick, needs long term care, and...
Everyone knows the famous wedding vow phrases:
In sickness and in health, for richer for poorer, etc... right?

Well you don't have to include these phrases. Really.
You can come up with whatever half stepping or corner cutting phrasing that suits.
Well, that suits you BOTH.

This is the basis of where "prenuptial agreements" come into play.
Talk to your lawyer.

Especially so if you have more than a few nickles or other obligations and interests
that you want to protect or provide for (kids, grands, whatever).

Quote:
If you're not married, then you don't have to worry about that. Correct?
It's certainly should be more clear cut.
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Central Massachusetts
4,800 posts, read 4,852,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red On The Noodle View Post
What about it one spouse gets very sick, needs long term care, and it wipes out both parties' assets? If you're not married, then you don't have to worry about that. Correct?

Yes in point, but..... let's at least do something to assist if not with money, do something to get help.
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:39 PM
 
494 posts, read 881,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wit-nit View Post
If you're not married and live together a long time and accumulate a lot of monetary items when you die there can be a lot of serious consequences. Especially with heirs and the splitting of the legal property and your personal items unless you both have a will, or better yet, a trust spelling out everything. The State and the IRS will probably want some share too.
When married everything automatically turns over to the surviving spouse. [Boldface added.] You'll also get surviving SS benefits too if married.
My standard disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer nor do I want to play one on City-Data, but sometimes when I see info contrary to what my admittedly nonlegal and often muddled brain has come to think it understands (at least with respect to what may be the case for some of the people reading it and potentially relying on it), I feel I should post a suggestion to run this by your own attorney to see what the case is for the state you live in.

The first sentence seems like very useful into to me (I think things can have wrinkles that wouldn't have occurred to us). But re the bolded part:

The law concerning this in Florida (where I currently live) is something I've tried to research on the Internet for myself only because as a prospective home buyer (of my eventual retirement home) I don't want to offer a contract on a property that might run into issues of clear title (due to issues of who has ownership/right to convey property following death of a spouse, among other things), and so when I see a possible home to buy listed online I always try to look at the public records re ownership and past transfers (same way as I check tax valuations, whether a home is in a high-risk flood zone, etc).

I am mostly fumbling in the dark when I attempt this because I don't have the background to understand what I'm seeing in the public records. (I tried posting some time back on the real estate forum to ask if there was a textbook I could read--something like what people who work in title companies might have learned from themselves--and several folks there, while obviously wanting to be of sincere help, told me I was worrying too much instead of pointing me toward any book or resource. I would always get an attorney to make sure I was getting clear title for any property I would buy, but I was just trying to become a more knowledgeable initial screener of possible listings I saw. I've gone to see places that are as much as an 8-hour round-trip drive from where I live, so would rather not waste my or anyone else's time on a place that isn't going to work out for me no matter how much I like it.)

But (again, while not giving advice or giving any kind of info as definitely correct), my reaction in reading the statement I've bolded was "Oh, if only it were always that simple," after reading everything I've read online about the law in Florida.

An interesting thing in light of this thread (still haven't gotten a law degree in between paragraphs, still could be wrong in my impressions) is that from what I've come across in trying to understand what's the case in Florida, there seem to be issues created under certain sets of circumstances by marriage to someone who has children from another marriage or relationship (a distinction--again, possibly coming into play in certain specific circumstances--between a surviving spouse when any descendants are the children the spouses had as a couple versus not).
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:46 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
I just re-read the divorce thread and started thinking. Dangerous thing that thinking.

Has anyone gotten re-married after 60? And how much did it actually cost you? I have heard many seniors live together because getting married would cost so much in SS benefits. Did you find this to be true?

It's also true that 60 yo means you don't have to worry about children from the marriage so that argument no longer works. Were you able to just do it or do the money concerns preclude saying "I do.".
I know two couples who married after age 60- with one couple, it was the guy's first marriage ( in his late 60's!) and the lady had been widowed for several years. The second couple had each been widowed for a number of years. They seem very happy and I couldn't say what it cost them.

As for Social Security, apparently the applicable widow(ers)' benefits continue for each party if they (re)marry after age 60, so there is no loss of the SS income in that regard. The SS administration has written an interesting paper on the topic, which describes a number of scenarios and answers questions.


Widows Waiting to Wed? (Re)Marriage and Economic Incentives in Social Security Widow Benefits

That's just Social Security. There are many other issues in second marriages in which the spouses have assets built up over a lifetime, heirs, etc etc etc.... those are completely individual in nature, and whether there are "losers" and "winners" in individual scenarios just depend on a whole lot of other things.

I can't imagine myself re-marrying in the event something happened to me husband, but that's me.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Out there somewhere...a traveling man.
39,553 posts, read 47,780,182 times
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Most states, if not all, now have 'right of survivorship' laws. You can check with your local attorney's. Right of Survivorship | LegalMatch Law Library

And you may want to check out the 'tenants in common' laws too.
Why Tenants in Common Have no Rights of Survivorship | Home Guides | SF Gate
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:16 PM
 
6,840 posts, read 3,875,670 times
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This happened to a relative of mine who lost her long time first husband when he was in his late fifties. She married a very nice man after spending a few years alone. Unfortunately he rapidly became senile. VERY senile. She ended up having to take full time care of a man she had only spent about 2 years with. It totally ruined her retirement both socially and financially. His adult kids were only too happy to have her bear the burden.
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:48 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,511 posts, read 62,235,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
Unfortunately he rapidly became senile. VERY senile. She ended up having to
take full time care of a man she had only spent about 2 years with.
Very noble of her. How many of her friends (or her children) discussed the hard alternatives?

Entering into (whatever you might call it) at 50+ is a VERY different thing than doing so at 20+.
It is **completely** unreasonable to let romantic notions cloud the deeper issues.
Let alone to expect others to do so toward you. Be frank.
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
37,142 posts, read 45,675,592 times
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I am a married 66 year old. If my husband died, I could possibly consider remarrying a man who was MUCH richer, but otherwise would possibly live in sin. Why muddle up the financials at this point?
When I was young, I worked in banking and saw more than one elderly couple ruined financially after one of them became subject to long term care. There is too much of a danger of this happening in elder marriages. If I dodged this bullet once, I would not take the chance of dodging it a second time.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:08 PM
 
6,322 posts, read 3,583,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Very noble of her. How many of her friends (or her children) discussed the hard alternatives?

Entering into (whatever you might call it) at 50+ is a VERY different thing than doing so at 20+.
It is **completely** unreasonable to let romantic notions cloud the deeper issues.
Let alone to expect others to do so toward you. Be frank.
I'm glad you added this to your first post. What you describe there isn't a marriage; it's a financial contract. My opinion. It seems appropriate for later life, though.

I think that old saying about first time for love, second time for money makes a lot of sense. I've been married forty-seven years and doubt very much that I'd be interested now in adjusting to another full-time relationship with someone. (As far as my husband goes, I've already scouted out a couple of good matches for him in case I leave first. )

Not having to worry about the children in a late marriage can certainly not be true in the sense that, if there are existing adult children, they can make your love life and future security shaky indeed. Often if dad or mom remarries and has money they see the new spouse as a threat to their inheritance. And I've heard plenty of stories about the new wife ending up as a permanent nurse and then being dumped by the family when dad died.

It was astounding to me, once my mother entered the care center in her seventies, how many marriage proposals she got when word got around that she owned a house.
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,511 posts, read 62,235,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar View Post
I'm glad you added this to your first post.
What you describe there isn't a marriage; it's a financial contract.
It seems appropriate for later life, though.
It's appropriate for the younger too

Going back into history... marriage was always far more about the business aspects.
Joining lands, succession, securing futures... romance and love were along for the ride.

Back on point: If we can sit down and detail how we want a DNR or POA exercised
and designate Jane or Jack to be the responsible party the least we can do is recognize that
should include some brackets or limits of expectation on that responsibility as well.
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