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We are talking the vast majority... not arguing some small group or corner cases.
As far as I'm concerned, most people sitting in financial instability AT ANY AGE is mostly their own doing. 1 in 3 people in this country have less than $5k in savings in retirement... you aren't going to convince me that 1 in 3 people in this country have had something happen to them that was so beyond their control to put them in personal financial crisis.
So, you are saying the people I mentioned are a small group or corner case??
I disagree with what you wrote.
And that the vast majority had opportunity to save but somehow did not?
Incredulous.
You might be one of the lucky ones who has not encountered this problem. Congratulations. But if that is all you can "see", you have missed the real vast majority.
I would also agree that childless people have an issue. I am very happily and relieved to have no children or grandchildren, out of choice. Do I have a problem? No. Am I lonely? No. My senior life is full of fun, like minded people, neighbors, etc who get together, look out for one another and have time, money, and so on, to party, without the burden and hassle of family issues.
This is a bit strange IMO but my aunt and uncle never married or had kids. They bought a duplex and each live in one unit. My aunt has always done his laundry, the cleaning and cooking. They are both in their 70's now and have lived that way for 30+ years so it works for them.
My mom who is single but with 2 kids often talks of moving in with her brother in Utah when she is older. He's divorced with a daughter. I've offered for her to live with us but we move around a lot and she says she wouldn't be comfortable with that lifestyle. I think MIL may need somewhere to live eventually as she is living with her much older boyfriend so probably won't have a place when he passes. We've always planned for our moms (dads have passed) to live with us.
My grandma did live with us since my dad, her only child, predeceased her. She was 95 when she moved in. At that time my husband worked at home and I worked outside the home. The issue was, my grandma enjoyed top less sunbathing. She did not have dementia or anything, this was how she always was. One day she decided to lay out in the front driveway, topless, because she had a crush on the older man a few houses away. My husband found her there and was very uncomfortable with that. Also when she became incontinent that was an issue. Fortunately she was petite so transferring her was easily done single person. Eventually we did move her to a care home around the corner for round the clock care but I always felt guilty. She passed at 102 last year. Now I work at home so won't have to do that again hopefully and can care for our moms when that time comes.
I would also agree that childless people have an issue. I am very happily and relieved to have no children or grandchildren, out of choice. Do I have a problem? No. Am I lonely? No. My senior life is full of fun, like minded people, neighbors, etc who get together, look out for one another and have time, money, and so on, to party, without the burden and hassle of family issues.
Same here. I look at my adult nieces and nephews and see the problems they're still causing their parents and I'm glad it isn't me.
But then again, that's why I didn't want to ever have kids in the first place.
We are talking the vast majority... not arguing some small group or corner cases.
As far as I'm concerned, most people sitting in financial instability AT ANY AGE is mostly their own doing. 1 in 3 people in this country have less than $5k in savings in retirement... you aren't going to convince me that 1 in 3 people in this country have had something happen to them that was so beyond their control to put them in personal financial crisis.
I believe it. I live in a HUD building. I hear stories all the time of how people had something happen beyond their personal control to put them in personal financial crises, myself included.
I believe it. I live in a HUD building. I hear stories all the time of how people had something happen beyond their personal control to put them in personal financial crises, myself included.
For many it was medical expenses.
Population of the US: 327+ million
Population of the US under federal housing assistance: 10 million.
Far less than to account for the 1 in 3 don't have 5k in savings and the 70% of the nation is living paycheck to paycheck. A lot of these people aren't low income either... but will be in bad situations in retirement none the less.
I have a few friends in section 8 housing program in NYC. They are among the people that had stuff happen beyond their control; they all work and are fairly frugal. So I'm not saying they don't exist. What I am saying is that the majority that are in such situations... a lot of it has to do with their own personal choices in life.
As I said, I'm fairly liberal when it comes to social issues; I believe in welfare system for those that need it. The problem is the system is so dysfunctional that we have a portion of the population drawing from already taxed welfare system that shouldn't. It makes it difficult to argue in support for those programs against those that want to do away with the government assistance of all kinds.
Of course you live in HUD and going to make that observation. My spouse works in a special ed type of teacher in a special ed school. Its like her saying that the vast majority of children in this country have learning disabilities... well duh... that's the entire school. But her school doesn't represent the entire population and neither does you HUD building.
So, you are saying the people I mentioned are a small group or corner case??
I disagree with what you wrote.
And that the vast majority had opportunity to save but somehow did not?
Incredulous.
You might be one of the lucky ones who has not encountered this problem. Congratulations. But if that is all you can "see", you have missed the real vast majority.
You can disagree.. sure.. but no... as I said... 1 in 3 in this nation don't have 5k in savings... 70% living paycheck to paycheck. That includes people who aren't in low income brackets either. That spending habit carries into retirement and gets them into trouble.
No I am not rich. I'm not even wealthy. I have expenses just like everyone else. But at my income level, households are double in size, buying new cars, and such. Totally irresponsible to themselves.
You can disagree.. sure.. but no... as I said... 1 in 3 in this nation don't have 5k in savings... 70% living paycheck to paycheck. That includes people who aren't in low income brackets either. That spending habit carries into retirement and gets them into trouble.
No I am not rich. I'm not even wealthy. I have expenses just like everyone else. But at my income level, households are double in size, buying new cars, and such. Totally irresponsible to themselves.
My mom is getting ready to retire this year at age 62. Dad works a physical job.
My guess is that their net worth is low six figures, if that. A lot of medical bills and wasteful spending. He dumped a good bit of his retirement in the recession trying to stay afloat. Mom has never made over $40,000 - he was also below $40,000 from 2008 to 2017 or so. The house isn't paid for.
I don't know how they'll make it once she retires. With relatively low lifelong incomes and her taking early SS, they aren't going to get much from that. They have several pensions between them, but didn't stay long enough at one place to be fully vested - he's mentioned it's a "few hundred dollars a month" put together.
And they are nearly twice the median HHI in my town. What has the median been able to accumulate? They're probably dirt poor.
Population of the US: 327+ million
Population of the US under federal housing assistance: 10 million.
Far less than to account for the 1 in 3 don't have 5k in savings and the 70% of the nation is living paycheck to paycheck. A lot of these people aren't low income either... but will be in bad situations in retirement none the less.
I have a few friends in section 8 housing program in NYC. They are among the people that had stuff happen beyond their control; they all work and are fairly frugal. So I'm not saying they don't exist. What I am saying is that the majority that are in such situations... a lot of it has to do with their own personal choices in life.
As I said, I'm fairly liberal when it comes to social issues; I believe in welfare system for those that need it. The problem is the system is so dysfunctional that we have a portion of the population drawing from already taxed welfare system that shouldn't. It makes it difficult to argue in support for those programs against those that want to do away with the government assistance of all kinds.
Of course you live in HUD and going to make that observation. My spouse works in a special ed type of teacher in a special ed school. Its like her saying that the vast majority of children in this country have learning disabilities... well duh... that's the entire school. But her school doesn't represent the entire population and neither does you HUD building.
Neither does your anecdotal observation (no links)I am not talking about section 8 residents. We have only a hand full living here.
You made a very definite statement which appears to more based on opinion more than anything, that more people chose not to save rather than may not have be able to.
Have you ever had severe financial setbacks? You don't seem to be taking that into account.
In any case, this has been a debate from the time CD began. No one ever wins. It's not really worth going on about.
You can't tell me that between around 108 million (1 in 3) people are on a path of being a retired person without a significant chance of funding their own care. I highly doubt 108 million people are in situations that are beyond their control. Sure there are people who were dealt a bad hand in life but not a 3rd of the population.
You don't seem to understand... anecdotal observation is if I believed my wife's statements that most children are learning disabled and most people are in dire straits because of large number of people in bad situations in HUD building are true. I am saying the opposite. That your observation is as anecdotal as my wife's... neither are true.
It doesn't take much to understand we have a culture of debt and spending irresponsibly. It fuels our economy and breeds the inability for people to fund their retirement.
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