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Darth Vespa - What do you mean by not accommodating to renting guests? People who are staying for days - a week - a month? Or people who are trying to rent longer term? I always recommend a longer term rental to "kick the tires" if you're thinking of moving to a new place you're not familiar with.
The water thing you mentioned is exactly the kind of thing a non-resident new to an area might not be familiar with. It might seem to be an obvious problem in parts of the desert SW - but it is also an issue in Florida. We have mandatory irrigation limits in most of the state now. As well as tiered water pricing (the more you use - the more you pay per gallon). The latter is apparently for some quirky reason illegal in (desert parts of) California - but it is perfectly legal in Florida. Robyn
Well, Robyn, we rented for an entire month (November) this year and last year in those two 55+ communities. So that's all I have to go on in terms of comparing how accommodating they were to renting "guests." Robson definitely seemed more welcoming in an institutional sense, seemingly because they were not completely sold out of new homes. (The actual residents of both places were equally friendly.)
I definitely agree with you that longer term renting allows one to "kick the tires." Plus, they were just fun get-away, month-long vacations. We're a little disappointed that neither place turned out to be perfect for us.
On the other hand, there's not much to do 20 miles south of Tucson! Shadow Hills, though, is in the Coachella Valley, and we were endlessly busy with fun & interesting things to do..
I don't know what you mean that there isn't "much to do." I have been in Green Valley for over a year and my problem has been finding the time to do all of the things that I want to do.
Robson is very accommodating in Green Valley as they have a LOT of properties that they are trying to sell. They build some pretty nice places but their community was far too "country club" for our tastes.
As for Robyn's comment as to living on the edge of cities, I think that it is a lot easier to deal with the traffic in Green Valley, which is a small fraction of the traffic that you deal with when navigating the major roads around Tucson.
We lived in Sun City West AZ for a number of years before returning to Florida. In general it was not bad, a mix of mostly private homes, with some townhouses and a few apartment locations. Population was 29,000 55+ only.
Golf was an issue. There were 7 golf courses which was far too many. Only 25% of the residents played golf, but everyone got to pay for it.
The streets were county roads and tax supported, not gated.
We did not enjoy the dry AZ climate.
It was a good base to explore the western states with our camper.
There were over 100 clubs for all kinds of activities.
I don't know what you mean that there isn't "much to do." I have been in Green Valley for over a year and my problem has been finding the time to do all of the things that I want to do.
Robson is very accommodating in Green Valley as they have a LOT of properties that they are trying to sell. They build some pretty nice places but their community was far too "country club" for our tastes.
As for Robyn's comment as to living on the edge of cities, I think that it is a lot easier to deal with the traffic in Green Valley, which is a small fraction of the traffic that you deal with when navigating the major roads around Tucson.
Well, I'm glad it's working out very well for you. (Do you live in Quail Creek or elsewhere?) We loved Quail Creek. It was affordable and super attractive. The residents all seemed to love living there. Literally walking advertisements. We did some things away from Quail Creek such as attend a pecan festival, play golf, and hike in Madera Canyon, but there is so much more to do in the Palm Springs area (Shadow Hills). Out of curiosity, what are some of the other activities we could've taken advantage of?
I have looked at a bunch of Del Webb communities around the country (online, I should make that clear) and was surprised at how expensive the homes are. The upfront cost plus the monthly fees make it unlikely that my husband and I will ever seriously consider a DW community, even though we could probably "afford" to move to one of them. Many of them look lovely, but I don't think it will be the best use of our retirement funds.
You are paying up front for the amenities years in advance. The monthly fee at Carolina Arbors is only$174 which is amazingly low for all you get. However you have seeded all you get in your purchase price.
I have looked at a bunch of Del Webb communities around the country (online, I should make that clear) and was surprised at how expensive the homes are. The upfront cost plus the monthly fees make it unlikely that my husband and I will ever seriously consider a DW community, even though we could probably "afford" to move to one of them. Many of them look lovely, but I don't think it will be the best use of our retirement funds.
Your last line is key, how to best use your retirement resources. Many of these are built with equity rich seniors in mind and if you are from Jersey that could be you. But is that really how we want to deploy part of our assets? Good question and a big question.
Don't know which DW communities you looked at - but I notice you're in Florida. Some people in the JAX forum have made the same observations regarding the quality of construction in our local DW development that you do. IMO - the quality of construction can matter more in places with somewhat harsh environments (like Florida) than in other areas.
There are lots of threads here on CD about various DW communities all over the country. For example:
Also tons of links will pop up if you Google "Del Webb lawsuits". It is difficult - if not impossible - to generalize about developments that have gone up over the course of many decades - from one end of the US to the other.
A few random thoughts that also enter my mind when it comes to communities like this (or similar) are...
Many (although not all) are located outside of or on the periphery of metro areas. While a location like this may be ok for an "active 55 senior" - it becomes increasingly less optimal as you get older. If I were to move today - I'd want to be closer to things - not farther away from them.
When one moves to a new part of the world - it's important to learn something about hazards that exist there that one may not be familiar with. For example - many people who move to Florida think they don't have to worry about flooding if they're not close to the ocean. When - in reality - a lot of our worst flooding comes from soggy otherwise minor tropical storms that can dump huge amounts of rain inland in a very short period of time. Which results in flooding in areas where you might not expect it (often as a result of backups in drainage systems). Good building practices in many areas demand that houses be raised - at least a little - and not built "slab on grade". But that is the way DW builds here (as do many other builders).
The new construction market is "hot" where I live now (don't know what is going on in other parts of the country). When the building market is hot - it seems that developers just don't build things as well as they do when things are slower. For example - most houses here are built on concrete slabs. Site preparation and curing poured slabs properly are 2 of the most important things when it comes to the stability of a house. Yet I see that most builders today aren't spending the time or money to do these things properly. Which means that a lot of these houses are going to wind up with structural defects in a pretty short period of time.
If you're looking at a large community that is still "a work in progress" that won't be finished for decades - if you need to/want to sell before completion - you - as a seller - will always be competing with the developer.
Finally - a lot of these communities wind up being very specific age segregated ghettos as many people move in when they're about the same age - and then they all age in lockstep. For example - if average age in a place is 65 now - it will be 75 ten years from now - 80 15 years from now. At least in south Florida - it was very hard to attract new younger buyers as large 55+ communities wound up looking like nursing homes (due to the age of the residents). More than a handful wound up in financial distress (especially post-2008) - and some have actually been converted into "regular age" developments in recent years. Robyn
Robyn the points you raise are very valid and often discussed. What is interesting is that when I bring them up with sales representatives they don't contradict you and just acknowledge the risks. Also folks are older than the brochures sometimes present. It is perhaps best described as being active 55 and resident 75 communities. This Del Webb one of the owners had to be at least 55 and the other family members at least 19. That might suggest the market for is becoming more limited.
Robyn the points you raise are very valid and often discussed. What is interesting is that when I bring them up with sales representatives they don't contradict you and just acknowledge the risks. Also folks are older than the brochures sometimes present. It is perhaps best described as being active 55 and resident 75 communities. This Del Webb one of the owners had to be at least 55 and the other family members at least 19. That might suggest the market for is becoming more limited.
The older ages make sense. We're about the same age - I'm 68 and my husband is 70. And did you ever think of moving into a 55+ community when you were 55? I know I didn't. If my husband and I could find our perfect place - we'd move now (but it wouldn't be to a "senior" place). Absent finding the perfect place (have looked a lot but haven't found any) - we will simply age in place where we are now. Until it is impossible for us to do so.
When it comes to the age limit stuff - I think those are the (federal) rules a 55+ community has to follow to get around issues of age discrimination (and similar). Robyn
We lived in Sun City West AZ for a number of years before returning to Florida. In general it was not bad, a mix of mostly private homes, with some townhouses and a few apartment locations. Population was 29,000 55+ only.
Golf was an issue. There were 7 golf courses which was far too many. Only 25% of the residents played golf, but everyone got to pay for it.
The streets were county roads and tax supported, not gated.
We did not enjoy the dry AZ climate.
It was a good base to explore the western states with our camper.
There were over 100 clubs for all kinds of activities.
Arizona is indeed very different than Florida. My brother has a house in Scottsdale (but commutes to work in California). And - when we visit in Scottsdale - my skin gets tight and dry and I have to lather up with all kinds of skin stuff so my skin doesn't age 10 years in 10 days. Which I don't like at all. There are 2 kinds of people. People who like humidity - and those who don't. Easy to find out what category you're in after spending a little time in Florida - and a little time in Arizona.
Like I have said in the past - a lot of golf communities have issues - especially for residents who pay for golf but don't play golf. But - even if you're a golfer - it is best to buy golf "a la carte" IMO. Because the communities with lots of golf courses but not so many golfers will wind up with all kinds of issues - especially maintenance issues - down the road. Robyn
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