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On another thread, QuilterQuick said this about Cianci:
"What I said exactly was: "Men fight over women all the time. Italian men are a tad more protective than some other pantywaists;" In my experience, yes experience ... Italian men are REAL MEN. So put that in your pipe and smoke it."
I trust that the next time we read about a couple of black or hispanic teenagers getting violent over a girl, we will see QuilterChick, Massnative, and the other usual suspects praising those youth for being paragons of traditional manliness, rather than complaining about "thugs" and "ghettos" and "demographics".
As a woman, I can't imagine feeling "protected" because some guy takes it on himself to beat the crap out of some other guy because he thinks I'm his property. There's a difference between being protective, which implies protective of a woman's safety, and being proprietary.
On another thread, QuilterQuick said this about Cianci:
"What I said exactly was: "Men fight over women all the time. Italian men are a tad more protective than some other pantywaists;" In my experience, yes experience ... Italian men are REAL MEN. So put that in your pipe and smoke it."
I trust that the next time we read about a couple of black or hispanic teenagers getting violent over a girl, we will see QuilterChick, Massnative, and the other usual suspects praising those youth for being paragons of traditional manliness, rather than complaining about "thugs" and "ghettos" and "demographics".
This strange old school relationship attitude (for 2014) may reflect a generational divide, as well as other socio-factors. Old conservative people tend to cling to primitive patriarchal relationship dynamics that are long past their "Use By" date. The Neanderthal concept of men in relationships has faded fast, except with some seniors, rural residents and poorly educated young people.
I trust that the next time we read about a couple of black or hispanic teenagers getting violent over a girl, we will see QuilterChick, Massnative, and the other usual suspects praising those youth for being paragons of traditional manliness, rather than complaining about "thugs" and "ghettos" and "demographics".
Really man? Of all things must you inject race into this conversation? It's a pretty lowly way to go imho.
I think we are getting a little off track. We are not talking about duking it out in the street like a bunch of animals here. This discussion is about the former mayor who was CHEATED on. FYI, cheating is at the bottom of the barrel among all despicable behaviors (not far after murder). I will say that while I am an extremely non-violent person, that is an exception I will make. A casual attitude towards cheating, I think is a type of mental illness.
This strange old school relationship attitude (for 2014) may reflect a generational divide, as well as other socio-factors. Old conservative people tend to cling to primitive patriarchal relationship dynamics that are long past their "Use By" date. The Neanderthal concept of men in relationships has faded fast, except with some seniors, rural residents and poorly educated young people.
Can you remember back to 1984? that was THIRTY years ago Einstein. Has nothing to do with age, and has everything to do with *respecting women and respecting marriage vows. What Buddy Cianci did would have been nobody's biz if it weren't for "famous" people being involved.
* Which is a sorely lacking commodity these days. Just turn on the television. Maybe the Neanderthal concept of MEN beating on WOMEN and dragging them by the air is alive and well. Not all men have romantic relationships with women these days either.
Males beating on other males is alive and well recently, but "different" and rarely reported.
Can you remember back to 1984? that was THIRTY years ago Einstein. Has nothing to do with age, and has everything to do with *respecting women and respecting marriage vows. What Buddy Cianci did would have been nobody's biz if it weren't for "famous" people being involved.
* Which is a sorely lacking commodity these days. Just turn on the television. Maybe the Neanderthal concept of MEN beating on WOMEN and dragging them by the air is alive and well. Not all men have romantic relationships with women these days either.
Males beating on other males is alive and well recently, but "different" and rarely reported.
It is more about patriarchy than age. The resultant violence has always been, and still is, about male control and power not romance. Such violence should never be a "private" matter, just because it may involve a relationship.
Massnative:
>"Really man? Of all things must you inject race into this conversation? It's a pretty lowly way to go imho."
Oh please, having followed a lot of RI threads while house hunting this year, race is very quick to be injected into just about any discussion the state of neighborhoods and cities here -- and it certainly has been made a factor in this Cianci thread already.
Massnative & Quilterchick:
I think you two and Independent, Sandsonik, and I just look at the world in fundamentally different ways. Cheating almost as bad as murder and presumably _worse_ than assault? I can't even conceive of the moral principle by which consensual but disloyal sex is worse than inflicting violence upon someone, I just can't. And what Buddy did is indeed 'our biz' because he committed felony assault, a violation of public criminal law (which cheating is not).
Not to mention that I don't get how the right response to cheating is to beat the crap out of the other guy. If it was not rape, but consensual, it was my *wife* who violated my trust and our vows, not the other dude. Beating him doesn't do a thing to change the fact that my wife is an untrustworthy partner, and/or that our relationship is so dysfunctional that she went outside our home.
Now one old-fashioned response would be to beat the wife, too, but I don't think that's what you two are suggesting -- I hope not. But to treat the situation as if it is fundamentally the fault of the other man is take away the wife's agency as a full participant and decision-maker in the affair. If the dude walked onto my property and stole my car, or kicked my dog, then yes, said dude is the problem. But my wife making a knowing decision to meet dude at some motel is very different -- unless my wife is _also_ property and not a full person capable of independent moral reasoning. That's where I think IM, Sand, and I just don't get your take.
Massnative:
>"Really man? Of all things must you inject race into this conversation? It's a pretty lowly way to go imho."
Oh please, having followed a lot of RI threads while house hunting this year, race is very quick to be injected into just about any discussion the state of neighborhoods and cities here -- and it certainly has been made a factor in this Cianci thread already.
Massnative & Quilterchick:
I think you two and Independent, Sandsonik, and I just look at the world in fundamentally different ways. Cheating almost as bad as murder and presumably _worse_ than assault? I can't even conceive of the moral principle by which consensual but disloyal sex is worse than inflicting violence upon someone, I just can't. And what Buddy did is indeed 'our biz' because he committed felony assault, a violation of public criminal law (which cheating is not).
Not to mention that I don't get how the right response to cheating is to beat the crap out of the other guy. If it was not rape, but consensual, it was my *wife* who violated my trust and our vows, not the other dude. Beating him doesn't do a thing to change the fact that my wife is an untrustworthy partner, and/or that our relationship is so dysfunctional that she went outside our home.
Now one old-fashioned response would be to beat the wife, too, but I don't think that's what you two are suggesting -- I hope not. But to treat the situation as if it is fundamentally the fault of the other man is take away the wife's agency as a full participant and decision-maker in the affair. If the dude walked onto my property and stole my car, or kicked my dog, then yes, said dude is the problem. But my wife making a knowing decision to meet dude at some motel is very different -- unless my wife is _also_ property and not a full person capable of independent moral reasoning. That's where I think IM, Sand, and I just don't get your take.
Let me simplify it for you. One guy beat the hell out of another guy that was fooling around with his wife; and maybe Buddy still loved his wife. Nobody's biz. My point is that guys rough up other guys all the time ... it just doesn't get in the paper 90% of the time unless someone presses charges. Charges are not pressed 90% of the time.
Domestic violence is a man beating up his wife, or vice versa, and does get reported most of the time.
Kinda' like Timmy going home to his mommy crying that Billy punched him in the face. And if I were Timmy's mom, I'd tell him to go back and punch Billy in the face a few times more. Stand up for yourself and don't be a wimp.
Let me simplify it for you. One guy beat the hell out of another guy that was fooling around with his wife; and maybe Buddy still loved his wife. Nobody's biz. My point is that guys rough up other guys all the time ... it just doesn't get in the paper 90% of the time unless someone presses charges. Charges are not pressed 90% of the time.
Domestic violence is a man beating up his wife, or vice versa, and does get reported most of the time.
Kinda' like Timmy going home to his mommy crying that Billy punched him in the face. And if I were Timmy's mom, I'd tell him to go back and punch Billy in the face a few times more. Stand up for yourself and don't be a wimp.
Too many pansies these days.
Yikes! Talk about having a different World View. We're not even on the same planet. Like a time machine back to your Good Ole Days!
Yikes! Talk about having a different World View. We're not even on the same planet. Like a time machine back to your Good Ole Days!
LOL ! You may not know it, but there are many men who think the same way. And, uh, that would be today, 2014.
Now, get off my case.
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