How on earth do people afford to buy in SF? (rant) (San Francisco: condo, appliances)

[FC76-81]

People that can afford to buy a house in San Fran and who will actually live in that house themselves must really love SF because I have no idea why anyone would want to spend that much on a house that shares both walls with another house. I'm specifically referencing those houses like on 19th Ave and many others such as in the sunset. For the same price and in most cases less, they could get a house that doesn't share a wall with other houses and with a decent yard for less in other places.

Another thing I have noticed is a vast majority of houses in San Francisco are actually owned by people who do not live in them and would not want to live in them. About six years ago I was participating in an audit that a bank was going through at that time. I was surprised to find that it is not uncommon for someone who lives in such places like Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Los Altos, Los Gatos, Hillsborough, etc. to own at least a dozen of such homes in San Fran and simply rent them out for profit.

Point is, the vast majority of those living in such houses in San Fran are simply renting them, not so much buying/owning and living in them. Lot's of house flipping going on too. Very popular to buy up a house, do some renovations to it and then flip it for a profit.

[Ultrarunner]

^^^SF and Bay Area Real Estate can be very lucrative.

40% of sales are cash or were last time I checked.

As with most things... the hardest part is getting started... the tried and true method for many of us was to buy a starter home, make modest improvements and trade up...

Today... many will only accept a home that is "Done" and just as many prefer to rent.

The dream of a single family with a patch of lawn and some yard is no longer universal... things change and more prefer NOT to have or minimize outside maintenance.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by FC76-81

People that can afford to buy a house in San Fran and who will actually live in that house themselves must really love SF because I have no idea why anyone would want to spend that much on a house that shares both walls with another house. I'm specifically referencing those houses like on 19th Ave and many others such as in the sunset. For the same price and in most cases less, they could get a house that doesn't share a wall with other houses and with a decent yard for less in other places.

Another thing I have noticed is a vast majority of houses in San Francisco are actually owned by people who do not live in them and would not want to live in them. About six years ago I was participating in an audit that a bank was going through at that time. I was surprised to find that it is not uncommon for someone who lives in such places like Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Los Altos, Los Gatos, Hillsborough, etc. to own at least a dozen of such homes in San Fran and simply rent them out for profit.

Point is, the vast majority of those living in such houses in San Fran are simply renting them, not so much buying/owning and living in them. Lot's of house flipping going on too. Very popular to buy up a house, do some renovations to it and then flip it for a profit.

They don't share a wall. Although the space between the houses is generally very small (inches at times).

[Ultrarunner]

Another offset is many find they no longer need a car and all the expense that goes with it...

SF is one of the true walkable cities in the west and has many public transportation options.

[FC76-81]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Another offset is many find they no longer need a car and all the expense that goes with it...

SF is one of the true walkable cities in the west and has many public transportation options.

I'd say it's safe to say that the vast majority of those living in San Fran without a car are the ones who are in their early to late 20's and temporarily renting with roommates. I did that myself back in the early 90's in the Sunset. Was really fun but had to have a car cause I worked in Redwood City and also Stonestown so I had to be at places on time and in short order.

Here are a few pix off google that show how close these houses in the sunset area are. And these houses are not cheap. Maybe I'm old school but I just don't see buying a house for over a million in San Fran just to have no decent front yard, a house touching each side of my house, and all the mess that goes along with living up there such as the traffic, the parking issues, the noise, 24/7 traffic (vehicle & pedestrian).

On a side note, flipping houses for profit is a huge money maker. They even do it with burial plots. I worked for the city of Colma a number of years ago and during some off-time I decided to stroll the Italian cemetery. On my walk a guy approached me and asked if I was interested in purchasing a plot. During the dialog, he mentioned that ten or so years ago he had purchased 20+ plots in various cemeteries at "x" amount of dollars and now sells them for "x" more amount then what he purchased them for. Everyone is out for bucks. It gets disgusting.

[Ultrarunner]

True capitalism at work...

The first sunset picture looks like a home the grandparents of my brother's friend owned... had tremendous room on the ground floor with a low ceiling... upstairs was quite nice and actually had a yard... I found it strange because the only way in or out of the yard was coming through the house.

Parking is a real issue for sure... even if you can park two or more cars... most have only a small single access door.

Personally, I don't get the appeal of SF proper...

One of our nurses loves SF and it's the reason she moved to California from Chicago... after a year she sold her car and takes BART to her job in the East Bay... at one time she actually paid $400 a month 3 blocks from her apartment just to rent a dilapidated garage to avoid parking tickets...

She rents or uses Zip on the rare occasion she needs a car...

[FC76-81]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

True capitalism at work...

The first sunset picture looks like a home the grandparents of my brother's friend owned... had tremendous room on the ground floor with a low ceiling... upstairs was quite nice and actually had a yard... I found it strange because the only way in or out of the yard was coming through the house.

Parking is a real issue for sure... even if you can park two or more cars... most have only a small single access door.

Personally, I don't get the appeal of SF proper...

One of our nurses loves SF and it's the reason she moved to California from Chicago... after a year she sold her car and takes BART to her job in the East Bay... at one time she actually paid $400 a month 3 blocks from her apartment just to rent a dilapidated garage to avoid parking tickets...

She rents or uses Zip on the rare occasion she needs a car...

Yeah, the backyards seem pretty decent sized in these houses. I had a babysitter when I was a kid who was living in that area and the backyard was huge. But yeah, you have to go through the house to get to it.

In regards to the car parking, was it a private garage she was renting from someone or one of those huge parking garages? One thing that is upsetting that I've experienced is the communities will promote public transportation and then give my car a ticket for not being moved for "x" amount of time. At one point in time I lived on a street that didn't have street cleaning. So I had my car parked out on the street and during that time I was taking CalTrain to work and back every day. It was great not having to get in the car and head to the gas station but only once every other month or two. But the cops would come by and put a warning on my car for it to be moved. I didn't get that, why if I live there and take public transportation every day, why do I also have to move my car. It's not like my car was a piece of junk, it was a clean reasonably newer 528i BMW. Wasn't leaking oil or allowing trash to build up around it. That is the only downside to taking public transportation as much as possible if also owning a car.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by FC76-81

Yeah, the backyards seem pretty decent sized in these houses. I had a babysitter when I was a kid who was living in that area and the backyard was huge. But yeah, you have to go through the house to get to it.

In regards to the car parking, was it a private garage she was renting from someone or one of those huge parking garages? One thing that is upsetting that I've experienced is the communities will promote public transportation and then give my car a ticket for not being moved for "x" amount of time. At one point in time I lived on a street that didn't have street cleaning. So I had my car parked out on the street and during that time I was taking CalTrain to work and back every day. It was great not having to get in the car and head to the gas station but only once every other month or two. But the cops would come by and put a warning on my car for it to be moved. I didn't get that, why if I live there and take public transportation every day, why do I also have to move my car. It's not like my car was a piece of junk, it was a clean reasonably newer 528i BMW. Wasn't leaking oil or allowing trash to build up around it. That is the only downside to taking public transportation as much as possible if also owning a car.

I don't get those laws either, but they're not specific to SF. I deal with that law in San Mateo as I take public transit, bike, or walk everywhere. I've gone weeks without driving - but I do see cops occassionally drive down my street to leave warnings if my car hasn't been moved in a while, so I'll move it at those times.

I actually have had to deal with that more in San Mateo than the time I spent living in SF (a couple of years) - partly because I was (ironically) driving a lot more in SF than I do in San Mateo.

[FC76-81]

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

I don't get those laws either, but they're not specific to SF. I deal with that law in San Mateo as I take public transit, bike, or walk everywhere. I've gone weeks without driving - but I do see cops occassionally drive down my street to leave warnings if my car hasn't been moved in a while, so I'll move it at those times.

I actually have had to deal with that more in San Mateo than the time I spent living in SF (a couple of years) - partly because I was (ironically) driving a lot more in SF than I do in San Mateo.

I lived in Japan for a number of years and never had a car while there and never missed it either. The public transportation system over there is so advanced it's beyond words. But this transportation system requires two components, the equipment side of the system and the society side of the system. It won't work with just one or the other, it takes both to work. And during those years I lived there, a person wasn't able to register a car unless they could prove that they had a place to park it off the public street when home. Things could have changed since then, but that's how it was while I was living there.

Interesting because it's not a big deal to hop in the car on a Friday or Saturday night, drive thirty or so miles to San Francisco for a nice dinner and then back home. In Japan, that would be considered something crazy to do, traveling 30 or so miles one way just to eat dinner and then back home.

[Pretzelogik]

I come from China with millions of bucks.