How on earth do people afford to buy in SF? (rant) (San Francisco: how much, home sales)

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by TrvlGrl1234

Dear- bebOp

I would love to know where these jobs of this calliber are and combined salary + savings. My experience is not the numbers you state.

My partner and I are in our mid 30's we have been saving what we can for over 10 years. Our combined income is less than 7,000/mo. in SF and we are hardly scraping by some months we can't make our bills. The most lavish thing we do is see a movie 2x/month and a nice dinner occasionally. Our combined savings is well under 30K and we DO NOT live laveshly. We haven't owned a TV in 12 years b/c we just can't afford it.

We both of students loans and our cars are old but paid off- we don't even have the cars in the state b/c parking is 400-600/month where we live in the city.

We cook 90% of our meals at home, when I go out w/friends or movies I sneak my own drinks in so I don't have to spend money I don't have.

I bike to work to cut down on commuter cost, and we live next to my partners work so he doesn't have commuter cost.

One of us just took a new job in south bay for hopes of saving a dime and are now looking at a 4 hour commute daily b/c we can't even afford to move out of our place b/c rent has increased so f* much in the last 5 years. We would need an extra 10K/year just to be able to move into a new place in south bay... just when I thought SF was the most expensive place in the US I now see that Silicon Valley is even worse.

If I could do it all over again I would never have moved to SF...its just not worth the stress, and quality of life that you get for your money. Looking at any chance I can to get out. We moved here 6 years ago and it destroyed our savings just to get here, our quality of life is the lowest it's ever been and I've lived in 12 states and 4 countries. I just don't recommend SF or the bay area to anyone unless you are making 200K/year or higher for a couple you would need 250-300K/year to live a moderate lifestyle, especially if there are student loans, any debt or car payments. ITS NOT WORTH IT F* SF!!!

I agree that cost of living here for newcomers is ridiculous (and probably not worth it for most people (such as myself, if I were moving here today)), but something doesn't seem to be adding up based on what you've wrote...where is all of your money going? Is 7K after tax income?

I'm assuming you moved into your apt ~5 years ago? I also moved to the region a bit over 5 years ago, and that's the only way I can really afford to be where I am now (due to my landlord not raising rents to market rate). I assume you're still paying 2010 prices (or close to?)...so that should be like ~$1500 for a 1BR - no? I can't imagine you're paying much more than $2000...unless you live in one of those places in SOMA that aren't rent controlled and pump up prices every year/multiple-times-per-year. But considering you were remarking about how expensive the South Bay has become, and talking about being stuck in SF, I have to imagine you're in a rent-controlled place.

So your rent can't be taking up that much, right?

And you mention not having debt...or a car...Where is the money going?

I also make less than you do (less than 6K a month, after tax), but I still manage to save a lot of money every month. And I have lots of student loan debt (still), and I wouldn't say I live ultra-frugally (I imagine I'm definitely a below-average spender, but I generally partake in plenty of vacations and go out to eat occasionally...).

Yes, if you're moving here today, there's no way you can afford SF (or any nice inner part of the Bay Area) on less than 75K (some would say 100K, although I think it depends on the individual)...and for this reason, I generally don't recommend people to move here today unless they have a really good reason. But you're not moving here today - it sounds like you have rent control and moved here during one of the best times of the last decade. What gives?

[modernist1]

Originally Posted by HockeyMac18

I agree that cost of living here for newcomers is ridiculous (and probably not worth it for most people (such as myself, if I were moving here today)), but something doesn't seem to be adding up based on what you've wrote...where is all of your money going? Is 7K after tax income?

I'm assuming you moved into your apt ~5 years ago? I also moved to the region a bit over 5 years ago, and that's the only way I can really afford to be where I am now (due to my landlord not raising rents to market rate). I assume you're still paying 2010 prices (or close to?)...so that should be like ~$1500 for a 1BR - no? I can't imagine you're paying much more than $2000...unless you live in one of those places in SOMA that aren't rent controlled and pump up prices every year/multiple-times-per-year. But considering you were remarking about how expensive the South Bay has become, and talking about being stuck in SF, I have to imagine you're in a rent-controlled place.

So your rent can't be taking up that much, right?

And you mention not having debt...or a car...Where is the money going?

I also make less than you do (less than 6K a month, after tax), but I still manage to save a lot of money every month. And I have lots of student loan debt (still), and I wouldn't say I live ultra-frugally (I imagine I'm definitely a below-average spender, but I generally partake in plenty of vacations and go out to eat occasionally...).

Yes, if you're moving here today, there's no way you can afford SF (or any nice inner part of the Bay Area) on less than 75K (some would say 100K, although I think it depends on the individual)...and for this reason, I generally don't recommend people to move here today unless they have a really good reason. But you're not moving here today - it sounds like you have rent control and moved here during one of the best times of the last decade. What gives?

Didn't the OP say that was a combined income?

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by modernist1

Didn't the OP say that was a combined income?

This is in response to TrvlGrl1234 on the previous page (who bumped this really old thread).

[CBB_bear]

Originally Posted by beb0p

As I've said in a different thread on a similar subject - people can afford these homes because - let's consider the following scenario:

A married couple in their 30s, no kids or have a toddler, and have been working and saving for ten or more years. They should have around $200k in combined savings and combined make about $150k annually. They can afford a house somewhere in the $750k to $850k reasonably comfortably and in the $900k range if they stretch - they have enough down payment and they can afford the roughly $3,000/mo mortgage (their take home is approx $8,000). If they rent out the in-law unit in the garage for $1,000 a month (many do that in SF) it can trim the mortgage to only $2,000 a month. Likely less than what they pay for a comparable rental.

I'd say the couple above is pretty typical of SF buyers. Yes, there are also trust-fund babies and investment group in the market but the couple above can reasonably compete in the market and sometimes get the offer accepted.


Also as California Vagabond mentioned - there are less expensive neighborhood in SF. I'd also add that Daly City, Brisbane, South SF, Oakland (Dimond, Laurel, etc) are solid alternatives. SF is simply too small to be focused on with a tunnel vision.

I almost agree with this post, but I want to say a lot of the people you are talking about are couples who are in their 30s who combined make more like 250-300K combined, rather than 150K combined. Low six figures each isn't that unrealistic two professionals in their 30s.

[ny789987]

They don't. Since when does a city have to bestow a divine given right to newcomers to live there? Move to Buffalo. It is affordable. The weather stinks and the culture is lacking, but at least you will be able to afford to keep a roof over your head. Quit whining and go outside and build a snow man. When handed lemons, make lemonade.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by ny789987

They don't. Since when does a city have to bestow a divine given right to newcomers to live there? Move to Buffalo. It is affordable. The weather stinks and the culture is lacking, but at least you will be able to afford to keep a roof over your head. Quit whining and go outside and build a snow man. When handed lemons, make lemonade.

Buffalo, pound for pound, probably has more high culture than the Bay Area. The art museum is much better than anything in the Bay Area, the symphony is quite good, and there's a wealth of cultural organizations for a city of its size. And Toronto is very close.

But, yeah, the weather stinks.

[marcopolo666]

Originally Posted by irishman_irl

Just reading this article about the new-rich choosing to live in the mission district: Valentine’s Day miracle? Mission District poised to be SF’s most desired neighborhood | On The Block | an SFGate.com blog

I have no idea how people buy houses in SF, I am a software engineer & married....doubt I could afford anything over 300k...maybe 350k at a push. In other-words my maximum budget is no more than a deposit on these properties.....seems like no matter how hard or long I work, I will never be able to afford a modern / kind-of-cool house like the ones featured in the article....or much else for that matter.

I would love to live here long term, but at some point I need to start building equity / stop wasting cash on rent.

These home prices are pushing a million $.....it might as well be a billion as far as I'm concerned, it feels like a hopeless situation as far as owning a house is concerned.

Has anyone else been in this situation / managed to get onto the property ladder in SF with a "budget"?

Those that have the money buy in SF. Those that don't buy elsewhere. It's a shame you didn't but back in 2013, because you could have pocketed a HUGE amount of money.

[Ultrarunner]

Our new pharmaceutical rep is from England with a US passport as she was born here and then her family moved to London.

She 100% loves the Bay Area and San Francisco and says it is much less expensive than London...

I guess it is all relative.

[TrvlGrl1234]

A little ballsy to use the phrase Trolling- make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
"if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"- Maybe you are the one that is trolling.

We've been through over a year of financial counseling, with over 50 hours of workshops and counseling, also have a FA. We don't spend money on fancy things, we also use old technology. We haven't owned a TV in 12 years and don't have cable.

That's great that you have more savings maybe you should be sharing your success tips instead of telling others what they should be doing

The only reason we have cars is b/c we have a split commute off public transit lines. And they are POS's approx. 15 years old.

During the economic down turn I lost my job and was out of a job for over a year which drained a huge part of our savings. I took the first job I could find which was a massive pay cut, and have been struggling bouncing back ever since. I can only put away about 150/month including IRA savings. So I guarantee you probably do have more in savings and do make more than me.

I'd love to know when you started renting out here b/c that can make all the difference in someone's success in this city. I have friends that moved here years ago and easily pay 7K-10K less than us/year in rent.... that is a retirement account or a much more comfortable life and social scene.

Don't even get me started on clothes I never buy new only buy on half off half off sales if its more than 30 bucks I don't buy it and we don't have enough money or space to purchase much. I wear the same pair of jeans every day and only own 1 pair, I actually just got mine patched for holes b/c its cheaper than buying a new pair.

[TrvlGrl1234]

It is cheaper than London, it is all relative. I've lived all over the world, unfortunately the bay area has yet to impress me for quality of life and what you can get in return for money.