How on earth do people afford to buy in SF? (rant) (HOA, buyers)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

Sure, it CAN happen. But not in 99.99% of cases. Buy a new Chevy Malibu or Nissan Altima and put 200,000 miles on it over 20 years and see if it's now worth more than what you originally paid for it. Whereas, 99.99% of houses actually increase in value over 20 years, even though it's 20 years older, been used for 20 years, and many of its parts are on the verge of failure and require major repairs.

I have only bought one new car and it would be a loss if I sold... so to keep my record I will never sell...

All of my other cars have been used... some basket cases and even the basket cases have appreciated like the Model A Rumble-seat Roadsters...

I just wanted to point out the boss with the showroom new 2006 Ford GT and later selling if for 50k above what he paid Ford for it.

Homes certainly can appreciate and they can fall... especially in the the SF Bay Area... not just in places like Detroit.

The second home I bought had appreciated nicely over the years and I sold it for 255k in Oakland... about a year later the seller flipped it for 350k in 2007... did very little to it... same kitchen and bath... same windows... did upgrade the wood moldings and replaces lino with hardwood...

So the home went to foreclosure and sold for 80K... I went in it and it was very much the same as when I sold it... nothing torn up or damaged.

So here is concrete proof, one of many, where a home that sold for 350k at the height of the bubble later sold for 80K thirty months later.

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I have only bought one new car and it would be a loss if I sold... so to keep my record I will never sell...

All of my other cars have been used... some basket cases and even the basket cases have appreciated like the Model A Rumble-seat Roadsters...

I just wanted to point out the boss with the showroom new 2006 Ford GT and later selling if for 50k above what he paid Ford for it.

Homes certainly can appreciate and they can fall... especially in the the SF Bay Area... not just in places like Detroit.

The second home I bought had appreciated nicely over the years and I sold it for 255k in Oakland... about a year later the seller flipped it for 350k in 2007... did very little to it... same kitchen and bath... same windows... did upgrade the wood moldings and replaces lino with hardwood...

So the home went to foreclosure and sold for 80K... I went in it and it was very much the same as when I sold it... nothing torn up or damaged.

So here is concrete proof, one of many, where a home that sold for 350k at the height of the bubble later sold for 80K thirty months later.

I remember that time where I was digging in my backyard and oil came out too!

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

I remember that time where I was digging in my backyard and oil came out too!

There are a few oil wells in the South Bay... not many but a few... I think it was around Los Altos and Saratoga... been awhile.

"Santa Clara Valley was also experimenting with other sources of income. Oil wells once dotted the valley, and from 1866 until the discovery of other sources in 1880, the county produced nearly all of California's oil."

http://itouchmap.com/?d=232586&s=CA&f=oilfield

Here is a map of Los Gatos with the oil well marked.

https://www.realtown.com/LiveInLosGa...oil-in-belwood

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

There are a few oil wells in the South Bay... not many but a few... I think it was around Los Altos and Saratoga... been awhile.

You realize I'm saying that your examples are anecdotal right? Vey heavily
anecdotal.

[EdJS]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

But they are. On Mars.

Besides, there's also landfill and land reclamation. And if you drive around this country, there is clearly no shortage of land.


You don't own the land when you buy a condo so why would something you don't get be worth more? That's like saying a car increases in value because of its engine, but if you don't get the engine when you buy the car, why would the car increase in value?

You do own the land when you buy a condo. Or at least, you own "land". You own a proportional share of the land the condo complex sits on. If there are, say, 50 units in the complex, you own one-fiftieth of the land.

The important thing is that this land appreciates in value just like the land a single family home appreciates.

[TheGreatCurve]

Originally Posted by EdJS

You do own the land when you buy a condo. Or at least, you own "land". You own a proportional share of the land the condo complex sits on. If there are, say, 50 units in the complex, you own one-fiftieth of the land.

The important thing is that this land appreciates in value just like the land a single family home appreciates.

The reason why people value the land under a single family house is because you can tear down a 100-yead old house sitting on that land and build a brand new one on it. You cannot tear down an entire building so that you can erect a brand new unit in a 50-unit condo building, so therefore the land really has no practical value to a condo buyer because you cannot so anything with it. It's like unbuildable land has almost no value.

[scirocco]

Originally Posted by sonarrat

San Francisco has 800k people and 2-3 million more who would take their place at the drop of a hat if it was affordable. There's no population growth to speak of, because essentially no new housing can be put in, and yet the demand keeps growing.

For the most part, I feel the following is true of my experience living in San Francisco.

1. There is not a day goes by when I read or hear something regarding rent prices. The shock factor never seems to recede. Even with the higher tech salaries, I often wonder how can they manage it.

2. Feel blessed if you have rent control. It might be the only way possible to stay long term , with decent living standards in the city.

3. The housing bubble will grow and grow. The tech world is not going anywhere for a while. What we will see is tech folks making six figures plus and they will be the new voice of the rent forever movement. The prospect of buying a place is becoming more and more distant. Imagine some of these younger engineers going to the SF Tenants Union or other Tenant Rights Groups and many make more than the exec. dir. there. Wow.

4. In the past decade, anybody living here in SF for a while will tell you so much has changed in that time. Back then, the city was always built on smarts and a relatively laid back vibe. The place was chill. Now, there is an edge about the place not seen before. The problem with SF is its own popularity. When word got out before of sound investments with property in the city, many untypical SF types put down their cash and bought houses here. So now we have a whole section of the population here, typically conservative and middle aged, whose sheer numbers would seem so out of place not so long ago.

[beb0p]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

But they are. On Mars.

Besides, there's also landfill and land reclamation. And if you drive around this country, there is clearly no shortage of land.

There IS a shortage of land in the Bay Area!! Land is one of the few commodities that is not transportable, a person can't go, "There are lots of unused land in Utah, let's ship some to San Francisco!"

So what if there are no shortage of land in other places, there is limited land here.

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

You don't own the land when you buy a condo so why would something you don't get be worth more? That's like saying a car increases in value because of its engine, but if you don't get the engine when you buy the car, why would the car increase in value?

What do you mean "You don't own the land"?? Of course condo buyers own the land - it's a shared ownership with other condo owners.

Title to a condominium also encompasses ownership of the land and common areas with the remaining unit owners.

.............

A declaration of condominium must ordinarily contain the following: (a) a legal description of the land and buildings of the condominium, which is essentially the same information contained in the deed.


Condominium Ownership legal definition of Condominium Ownership

.

[beb0p]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

The reason why people value the land under a single family house is because you can tear down a 100-yead old house sitting on that land and build a brand new one on it. You cannot tear down an entire building so that you can erect a brand new unit in a 50-unit condo building, so therefore the land really has no practical value to a condo buyer because you cannot so anything with it. It's like unbuildable land has almost no value.

You know what, gold has very little useful value and most investors do not have the skill/equipment to turn it into anything useful. So why is gold valuable? Because its value lies in it being gold, not in its usefulness.

The land under the condo has value just because it is land. The fact that it is very difficult for owners to build new things on it is irrelevant.
.

[EdJS]

Originally Posted by TheGreatCurve

The reason why people value the land under a single family house is because you can tear down a 100-yead old house sitting on that land and build a brand new one on it. You cannot tear down an entire building so that you can erect a brand new unit in a 50-unit condo building, so therefore the land really has no practical value to a condo buyer because you cannot so anything with it. It's like unbuildable land has almost no value.

That's ridiculous. If that were true, condo prices would not essentially follow the market prices of housing in general, they'd be a strictly depreciating asset.