Job offer in SF....yes? no? hell no? (San Jose, San Francisco: transplants, big house)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by jade408

Condos were never an expectation for middle class housing here. We barely have any. We have only built single family homes for generations. We don't have family sized condos. The Bay Area, like most of California is suburban. The only difference is the prices have exploded because we haven't built enoigh to keep up.

No one anticipated the huge tech boom. And even with it underway, it seems like builders still aren't thinking "condos" so much. Mostly stuck in SFH mode. Well, and when they do think "condos", they're not thinking of family-sized units, you're right.

[sav858]

I think the majority of housing being built now are condos/multi-family rather than SFH's. You don't really see large, SFH home subdivisions being built anymore many places. I think you are seeing a lot more 3-br condos/Multi Family units nowadays too though but the Bay Area is playing catchup so the majority or still 2-br or less.

[jade408]

We still build with the expectation that condos are for singles and couples whereas single family homes are for families. So the idea that condos are the "middle class option" isn't based on current realities.

I live on a block that is roighlY 50/50 multi family and single family homes. Most of the multi family buildings are like mine in design so I'll use those as assumptions. On my block there are roughly 240 condos (13 buildings 15-25 units each). They generally designed the penthouse as a 3 bedroom. So that means 5% are 3 bedrooms. In my building each floor has one or two 2 bedroom assuming none were converted later. These buildings are generally 4 floors. So this means six 2 bedrooms per building because the top floor is the penthouse. So this means about 1/3 are a 2 bedroom. So that leaves the bulk of the housing as 1 bedroom or studio. Not much for families indeed. And the streets near me have similar patterns.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by jade408

We still build with the expectation that condos are for singles and couples whereas single family homes are for families. So the idea that condos are the "middle class option" isn't based on current realities.

I live on a block that is roighlY 50/50 multi family and single family homes. Most of the multi family buildings are like mine in design so I'll use those as assumptions. On my block there are roughly 240 condos (13 buildings 15-25 units each). They generally designed the penthouse as a 3 bedroom. So that means 5% are 3 bedrooms. In my building each floor has one or two 2 bedroom assuming none were converted later. These buildings are generally 4 floors. So this means six 2 bedrooms per building because the top floor is the penthouse. So this means about 1/3 are a 2 bedroom. So that leaves the bulk of the housing as 1 bedroom or studio. Not much for families indeed. And the streets near me have similar patterns.

SFH's yes are still built with families in mind but condo, and even apt, developments today seem to have more 3-bedroom units and child-friendly amenities like playgrounds. So I think developers are building condo's with families in mind more so than in the past. When there is very little areas you can even build SFH and with prices as high as they are it's only natural that they would.

How old are the multi-family buildings on your block typically? Oakland isn't really seen as family-friendly either, especially areas with a lot of apartments. But newer condo developments in places like Dublin have playgrounds.

[neutrino78x]

Condos ARE the middle class option. It is what you can afford on the median income instead of a sfh.

Family size just means two or more bedrooms. So 300 square feet with two bedrooms and a common area is family sized. A condo that has the same floor area as a sfh defeats the whole purpose of a condo, that being to offer a smaller space and allow someone with a middle class income to own their space as opposed to renting it.

[sav858]

Land is the most expensive part of a property in the Bay Area. Many family-sized condo's are the same sq footage as many SFH ranch style homes, so you can get the same size home inside but not have to pay as much because it shares the land with other units.

[bentobox34]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

No one anticipated the huge tech boom. And even with it underway, it seems like builders still aren't thinking "condos" so much. Mostly stuck in SFH mode. Well, and when they do think "condos", they're not thinking of family-sized units, you're right.

Speaking from the South Bay, since the 08-09 recession, almost all housing in Santa Clara County has been multifamily or townhomes. I haven't heard of any large single family home developments north of Morgan Hill.

Most units are rentals (not condos) and are 1- or 2-bedroom.

[jade408]

Originally Posted by sav858

SFH's yes are still built with families in mind but condo, and even apt, developments today seem to have more 3-bedroom units and child-friendly amenities like playgrounds. So I think developers are building condo's with families in mind more so than in the past. When there is very little areas you can even build SFH and with prices as high as they are it's only natural that they would.

How old are the multi-family buildings on your block typically? Oakland isn't really seen as family-friendly either, especially areas with a lot of apartments. But newer condo developments in places like Dublin have playgrounds.

Mine are old, like much of Oakland. 50s-80s. There are quite a few young families around though. The SFHs on my block have good sized yards, and there are plenty of strollers / kids stores on the commercial streets. But yes, the apartments / condos from my era are not the ones with common spaces. No playgrounds or even courtyards in most. People seem to move out when their kids get a bit older, though one family in my building has school age kids. Before they moved in it was mostly toddlers. The ones that moved out moved to SFH in the inner east bay homes with yards: Berkeley, Oakland, and Albany. So they didn't really change their preferences for "urban" living, they went for more space in a walkable place.

[bentobox34]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Condos ARE the middle class option. It is what you can afford on the median income instead of a sfh.

Except that you can'd afford it on the median income. The median sales price for a condo in Santa Clara County was $645k last month (Link). The median household income in Santa Clara County is $93k. It is not "affordable" to spend seven times your annual income on a condo.

[HockeyMac18]

Originally Posted by bentobox34

Except that you can'd afford it on the median income. The median sales price for a condo in Santa Clara County was $645k last month (Link). The median household income in Santa Clara County is $93k. It is not "affordable" to spend seven times your annual income on a condo.

And we've come full circle.