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and having nothing but a silly single shot will get you killed for sure.
Care to stand in as a target dummy for a good marksman armed with a silly single-shot? Just to prove how pitifully useless single-shots are?
Sprayin' -n- prayin' your tacticool with a 30 rnd mag and fifty more 30 rnd mags in your designer Badass (tm) drag bag will get you killed even faster--that is unless you are Arny in Commando and can single handedly hold off 200 aggressors armed with God knows what, bullets flying all around you and mortars exploding by your feet as you run... yeah, that's realistic all right. Of course, he could have held them off with a bag of marbles.
yeah 'having nothing but a silly single shot" I trashed a spinner target suited for .35 Winchester, with my .62 cal Nor West Gun. The bad part was i had no idea i would trash that target, and neither did the 2 guys who laughed at my Nor West gun.
I offered to pay for the target, but the guys were in too much shock to understand any idea about money, and said no.
I bet today that target is in some Trophy Room, nailed to a wall.
They didn't think I would hit it in the first place, muchless bend over the ground irons and smash the spinner to a deep U shape.
The same thinking went into a turkey shoot I won, but was dusqulified from for cheating, with the same flintlock gun. Everyone else had a shot shell gun, either semi auto or pump.
No one could say how I cheated and I'll be dammned if I know. I had 1 ft post site and no rear.
I maintain I won that shoot, but just didn't get the turkey. I am ok with that.
Shooting under stress of life or death sucks, but i did it once, and hope I never have to again. I gu ess i fooled that bad guy too. That was with a 12 ga LC Smith side by side, all I had.
no longarm is likely to be there when it is needed. the shotgun's pattern spread, at the expected ranges of 10 ft and less, 2-3" wide, is really no help in hitting anything. those who won't bother to learn to shoot the pistol really well, better stick with the 1022 and Stingers, or a High Point 9mm carbine and Cor Bon 100 gr PowRBall jhp's. the shotgun is not easy to use well, up close and fast, and ammo for it costs a lot. remember, having to fire is quite rate, getting the gun pointed at the attacker is by far more important than the power of the round involved.
After reading this last post that I’ve quoted from you, I feel that you’ve missed the obvious topic of this thread. Note that we’re discussing, “I need some advice on HOME DEFENSE WEAPONS…”
Hence your entire premise that a long arm is probably not going to be with you when you’re attacked is a bit odd when you’re at home.
You’ve also said that the shotgun is not easy to use up close. I beg to differ. I am not talking about your daddy’s shotgun for ducks. I’m talking about a short-barreled riot gun. Moreover, if the person is that close to you that it’s too unwieldy to use, you can but stroke them. If their still too close to do that you argue, I say this, *News flash!!! You’ve let the perpetrator get too close to you because you were unaware. Once he’s this close to you, a pistol will be too slow as well!
Pistols should be left to people that are willing to learn how to use them and practice often to keep their skill sharp.
If an intruder is in my home, I’m not worried about pointing a gun at him to scare him, if it’s pointed at him, he’s being shot at.
I feel that you have very limited firearms experience and training because I’ve read you say a 12 gauge pump action riot shotgun is too unwieldy, but yet you recommend other carbines that are no smaller…
Moreover, I’ve seen untrained people with pistols completely miss a dog target (silhouette of a man from the waste up) with a pistol while aiming down the sights at a distance of 10 feet. Yes, I said ten feet, yet I’ve seen that same person hit the target from that same distance while just looking down the barrel of a shotgun firing #4 birdshot
Repeat, pistols are inherently inaccurate due to the short sight radius. Pistols are rarely one-shot stoppers. Hence double and triple tap are taught in self-defense scenarios. Pistols are the most difficult firearm to master. The 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot is the most effective one-shot man stopper. It also shoots a spread pattern. There is specific ammo out there for 12 gauge that is designed to spread in as little as 10 feet, but still, regular ammo spreads, and a spread pattern no matter how small, will always increase the likelihood of a hit than a firearm that doesn't shoot a spread pattern. It’s the easiest firearm to master. Due to the extended sight radius and 18-½ inch barrel, it’s much easier to point, shoot, and hit targets than any pistol.
While at the range, I always loathed the two weeks prior to deer season. I got to watch the average Joe drag out his magnum rifle with a 3 – 9 power scope, and go to the range to sight it in for hunting. I used to cringe at the thought of these clowns in the woods trying to hit a deer off hand when they could barely shoot a reasonable group at 50 yards from a concrete bench rest…
Due to inexperience people wanting home defense weaponry as well as what I’ve seen out of many supposed shooters at the range, I will always suggest the 12 gauge shotgun in a pump action and riot type with an 18 ½ inch barrel due to its inherent power, ease of use, and affordability. Not only is this my personal opinion based on 35 years of firearms experience, it's also been what the experts have been saying for longer than I've been around. While I'm not one to jump on popular band wagons, the 12 gauge riot gun pump action with 00 buckshot is not a popular trend. It's popular because it's based on fact. After more than 100 years of civilian, police, and military wartime useage, the 12 gauge is number one because that's what the data, field use, etc etc etc...
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 08-18-2011 at 05:51 AM..
Hmmmm, I taught my gun fearful wife in about an hour. I started her off on a .22, then moved to a .38 but she liked the 9mm best when she envisioned emptying a full clip into an imaginary person hurting our daughter. She spit out 15 rounds in about as many seconds all center mass at self-defense distances.
Look, it takes years to learn how to shoot like a Navy Seal or a member of the FBI HRT but most folks don't need to learn to shoot a handgun that well. Folks get killed everyday by amateurs wielding all sorts of handguns since 90% of shootings take place at distances less than 15 ft. Defending oneself with a handgun just doesn't require the skills that will get you on Top Shotâ„¢,
Big difference between punching holes in paper at a range and aiming at a human being who intends you harm. Its amazing how one forgets the simplest things when under great stress.
There's no substitute for practice, practice, practice. People who buy a gun, load it, and toss it into the nightstand unseen for years are more dangerous to themselves than to any intruder.
If I'm within 6 ft of you, I can take that shotgun from you before you can do anything about it. THAT is what I mean by up close, and getting that close is EASY if I hear you coming in the dark, hide and "jump" you. Try using a light or a phone and a longarm, or comforting a scared kid, etc. I can kick open your door and be all OVER you in 2-3 seconds, you won' make out of the room that I enter, much less into another room grab up a pumpgun, rack the action, etc. That is likely to take you TEN full seconds, maybe more. Men do the 100 yd dash in 10 seconds, folks. If he's got a crow bar or hammer in his hand, and throws it as he sees you, you may well only have 1 second after you hear the crash. Your mouth will still be hanging open in surprise-shock.
Location: Finally escaped The People's Republic of California
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If your within 6 ft of me it's because your face down bleeding on my carpet. You bring your stealth skills, my dog will at least alert me, then your in my house in the dark. Newsflash Son a dark house is the homeowners advantage. I know my house, you don't . And yes the 12 gauge will clear the hallway, although with you, I'd probably just paddle your rear and send you back to Mommy to play more video games.
If I'm within 6 ft of you, I can take that shotgun from you before you can do anything about it.
No you can't. Sorry. My 6 gauge (yeah, it's actually a punt gun, but I have a strong shoulder) is duct taped to my hands during waking hours. Always cocked. Hair trigger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12
THAT is what I mean by up close, and getting that close is EASY if I hear you coming in the dark, hide and "jump" you... blah... blah.... blah...
Nope. I have a Romulan cloaking device. You can neither see me nor hear me. And when I "uncloak," you'll be looking down the business end of my 6 gauge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giney12
I can kick open your door and be all OVER you in 2-3 seconds, you won' make out of the room that I enter... blah... blah... blah...
Wrong. If you manage to kick open my 2 inch plate-steel doors, my home harbors surplus Claymore mines near each door and window, which are activated nightly with proximity triggers in addition to the trip wires. So, actually, YOU won't make it out of the room you enter. Well, actually, you will make it out of the room... as a slab of swiss cheese.
In reality, though, you won't even get close to my home. Each of the eight city blocks surrounding my bunker... er... I mean house has a fuel-air bomb (thermobaric) cleverly hidden. Yeah... they are old CBU-55 cluster fuel-air bombs that I picked up on the internet from a Soviet surplus website that specializes in old black market US munitions. And each is connected to the the surveillance software "Riff-Raff Detector version 3.6." Do you know what a fuel-air bomb can do to a human body, even a tough guy? Or actually can do to an entire city block? Or the whole town, for that matter? It ain't a pretty sight, pilgrim.
Editors note: Obviously, this is hyperbole. Gramma always told me this: fight hyperbole with hyperbole, youngin'.
If I'm within 6 ft of you, I can take that shotgun from you before you can do anything about it. THAT is what I mean by up close, and getting that close is EASY if I hear you coming in the dark, hide and "jump" you. Try using a light or a phone and a longarm, or comforting a scared kid, etc. I can kick open your door and be all OVER you in 2-3 seconds, you won' make out of the room that I enter, much less into another room grab up a pumpgun, rack the action, etc. That is likely to take you TEN full seconds, maybe more. Men do the 100 yd dash in 10 seconds, folks. If he's got a crow bar or hammer in his hand, and throws it as he sees you, you may well only have 1 second after you hear the crash. Your mouth will still be hanging open in surprise-shock.
Why stop there, if you're within 6" of them they can't bring that shotgun to bear, you couldn't effectively bring a handgun to bear either. Or maybe if they're asleep, you can get them then, and they can't use a shotgun. If they're blind, then you can do this during the day too, and have a massive advantage. Maybe they're in the bath with a cold mask on and their eyes shut. Maybe they're quadraplegic hell, theres no getting away from the fact that a shotgun would be useless in the hands of a quadraplegic.
Damn I never realized just how pathetic a shotgun is considering all those scenario's.
However just for sh*ts and giggles, I just timed myself on getting my shotty based on my most common location, and the location of the shotgun. You have 1.5 seconds between me hearing something and it being ready. Now that could be as you enter, but you need to orient yourself before you do anything, that's more than enough time for me to be pointing the dangerous end at you from about 10'. Then whatchagunnado?
Oh and for future reference, Olympic Sprinters do 100 yards in 10 seconds, your average 18 year old with good reflexes its nearer 12-13, older than that and your overall speed goes down. Its unlikely that someone who can run the 100 in 10s or under will be invading you home, there are not many people who can do that, and even fewer who can do that in the US that don't have sports scholarships for football, baseball or athletics.
I can bring a hg to bear on you, if you are breathing in my face, dude. you are quite ignorant about this subject. Maybe I can "only" shoot you in the groin at such a range, or have to bend my elbow and shoot you in the temple, but you are KIDDING yourself that a handgun can't be used when, belly to belly. You can have me in a full nelson, and I can STILL shoot you. :-)
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'having nothing but a silly single shot" I trashed a spinner target suited for .35 Winchester, with my .62 cal Nor West Gun. The bad part was i had no idea i would trash that target, and neither did the 2 guys who laughed at my Nor West gun.
