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I stopped reading around the time you compared Brandon to ANY major city... Much less a borough in New York.
I'd like to see Tampa become a major city. There are a TON of problems with that, though. The biggest I've experienced so far include:
-There are a LOT of north easterners (from one state in particular who get upset when you call them out) who moved down here to avoid their home state for one reason or another (high taxes, too crowded, etc) who refuse to allow Tampa to live to it's full potential.
-Big cities are GENERALLY more liberal, and liberal cities GENERALLY have much younger people living in them.
-Tampa has a lot of retirees and people looking for a "great place to raise a family." And Tampa mayors have been too afraid to tell them that that's what the suburbs (IE: Valrico, Brandon, Seffner, Lutz, Land O Lakes, Wesley Chapel, Zephyrhills, New Port Richey, etc) are for.
-Residents (snow birds and transplants) refuse to allow the taxes to go up (by as little as a penny) so we can make improvements to the city.
-Very few people who live here are actually FROM here. They don't have the same emotional attachment for the city.
Until, at the very least, some of these issues are addressed, Tampa will continue on just as it is.
If you would've continued reading you would have realized that it wasn't a direct comparison, and it was more of a comparison of roles within a metropolitan region (urban core, artsy/indie center, suburban-ish hood, working class hoods).
New York City has had a Republican mayor since the 90s. Granted, the current mayor changed to Independent so he could become the Czar of the city, but he was elected as a Republican. I think the "cities are more liberal" thing is definitely more West Coast. The northeast/rust belt democrats are more the Catholic, pro-union, industrial/service class democrats and are pretty similar in values to the working class republicans.
I think the migration to Tampa has slowed down, allowing for natural growth in the city. My family moved from up north, but I call Tampa home. I root for the Rays and Bolts, go to USF, etc. I think once the kids in the post-bubble generation grow up in Tampa (given there are jobs to support them) you'll see a shift in the attitude and emotional attachment.
Once again, I'm not saying Tampa will ever be a world class city. I do think we have a lot to improve on; we could use a better road system/reasonable transit system. We could use some industry to provide better working class jobs instead of low-wage service jobs. We should be improving our educational systems, K-College, public and private. We could utilize grads from the newly evolved "Florida Research Triangle" of UF, USF, and UCF to start businesses, make strives in the tech and medical communities, and encourage more young people, families, and middle-agers to call Tampa home.
That is pure bull****! (BS= Bachelor's in Stupidity)
There is no entertainment in the burbs! There are no theaters here, (aside from MOVIE theaters which don't count since I can rent that type of content with my TV remote, and sit comfy on my own couch without anyone chewing pop corn in my ears, and cough all over me! Thanks)
This is PRECISELY the dumbing down of this society that i am talking about! Making a ridiculous assumption that just because someone is looking to raise a family, that equals they are through with going out to see a classical concert, a ballet, or a good quality Broadway show!
Do you think us, the ones with families, are all stupid, and all we care about is getting fat and watch TV 24/7? cause I can assure you that while there IS a portion of the population in the USA that happily does that, there is another portion that doesn't do that AT ALL, and resents the fact that good quality entertainment is non-existent, when it should be available without an issue!
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Originally Posted by tampagator89
I realize that, I just think it's unfair to be blaming Tampa for "not catering to different demographics" when 99% of families are looking to live in the suburbs and find all of their entertainment within those suburbs.
Businesses which will all fail because the majority of people working here are working service jobs, and are not able to afford ANYTHING of good quality.
First you need employers to notice inflation rates, then pay employees a decent wage, then expect that the people will have some buying power, and then expecting these businesses will thrive.
I agree that we need real jobs around here, and also some job diversity, not just nurses and accountants...BUT...in order for a company to move here, there should be some quality in the employees too...if the majority is made up of HS grads...Good Luck bringing anything of value around here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powellmacaque
We could utilize grads from the newly evolved "Florida Research Triangle" of UF, USF, and UCF to start businesses, make strives in the tech and medical communities, and encourage more young people, families, and middle-agers to call Tampa home.
If you would've continued reading you would have realized that it wasn't a direct comparison, and it was more of a comparison of roles within a metropolitan region (urban core, artsy/indie center, suburban-ish hood, working class hoods).
New York City has had a Republican mayor since the 90s. Granted, the current mayor changed to Independent so he could become the Czar of the city, but he was elected as a Republican. I think the "cities are more liberal" thing is definitely more West Coast. The northeast/rust belt democrats are more the Catholic, pro-union, industrial/service class democrats and are pretty similar in values to the working class republicans.
I think the migration to Tampa has slowed down, allowing for natural growth in the city. My family moved from up north, but I call Tampa home. I root for the Rays and Bolts, go to USF, etc. I think once the kids in the post-bubble generation grow up in Tampa (given there are jobs to support them) you'll see a shift in the attitude and emotional attachment.
Once again, I'm not saying Tampa will ever be a world class city. I do think we have a lot to improve on; we could use a better road system/reasonable transit system. We could use some industry to provide better working class jobs instead of low-wage service jobs. We should be improving our educational systems, K-College, public and private. We could utilize grads from the newly evolved "Florida Research Triangle" of UF, USF, and UCF to start businesses, make strives in the tech and medical communities, and encourage more young people, families, and middle-agers to call Tampa home.
I agree with most of your post certainly, with how you think we can improve Tampa, seems reasonable enough. However to compare the 14th market in the US with the city which is widely regarded as the capital of the world, a bit of a stretch, I am sure there a guy in a West Virgina coal mining town who can make the same arguments comparing his town vs NYC, i.e "its better to me", but it would be highly irrelevant. As someone who grew up in the city, has most of my family/friends in the city to compare northeast democrats to working class republicans is blasphemy, most of us in this hemisphere have "pretty similar values", i wouldn't vote republican unless my family was being held at gunpoint. You are either for social programs or you are for corporate welfare, you are either for tax cuts for the 1 percent or you are not. At any rate to your earlier post, most of NYC is not upper class, like most of the nation they are lower middle class and slipping.
Considering the # of people moving here, there must be more to this area than just "the warm weather"...
This is exactly the problem with Florida. Many people come down here to "run away" from their problems and enjoy the sunshine and think being here will make all their issues disappear. Well, they just end up moving down here with no job and bring their BS problems with them and get addicted to pain killers. We need to send the losers of this state packing back where they came from.
That is why you never see any Florida cities on these "hipster lists", because the people that move here are usually the rejects of the good cities up North or retirees. If you could make it as an artist in NYC or Seattle why in the hell would you come down here anyway????
Last edited by the awesomee; 08-15-2012 at 06:46 AM..
I started getting carried away with the multi-quote feature... lol.
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Originally Posted by crazynip
Once you grow up and start a family you will understand... cant help you now. You will find out the "downtown" lifestyle is not conducive to having a family.
Yep, absolutely correct. I want to live downtown... somewhere... but not until my kids move out. And... when/if I do downtown living, I won't do it here in Tampa or St. Pete. Which isn't a bad thing, because the burbs here are great IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powellmacaque
I think you misunderstood what I meant, which is fair because I didn't clarify. Much like Manhattan is the financial/cultural/epicenter of the NYC Metro, Tampa is the financial/cultural/epicenter of the Bay area. And St. Pete is the bohemian/artsy area much like Brooklyn has become in NYC. If you read further, I suggest that Tampa will become a nice secondary city. I don't expect it to reach NYC levels, or even pass Miami or Atlanta for that matter. Just be in the same sentence as Austin, San Diego, etc.
She always take things literally. I think the majority of us knew exactly what you meant.... at least I hope so. I also think you were spot on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia
That is pure bull****! (BS= Bachelor's in Stupidity)
There is no entertainment in the burbs! There are no theaters here, (aside from MOVIE theaters which don't count since I can rent that type of content with my TV remote, and sit comfy on my own couch without anyone chewing pop corn in my ears, and cough all over me! Thanks)
Yes there is. Do you ever attend community plays, college plays, highschool plays, amateur plays, non profit plays? Besides, you always talk about how you are broke.... how could you ever afford Broadway tickets, transportation there or any housing remotely close to it? Not to mention tons of people travel over an hour to get to Broadway when they go. If you are willing to travel over an hour from your home there is TONS to do here that you could NEVER EVER do in NYC.
We also have a couple of museums in Tampa Bay, not to mention Fantasy of Flight and some other things between here and Orlando. We also have a science center, a couple of aquariums, etc. Maybe instead of being entertained you should take up an outdoor hobby. Boating, fishing, kayaking, sailing, geocaching, frisbee golf, tennis, golf, bicycling, camping, etc. etc. (All of these hobbies are in the burbs).
Quote:
Originally Posted by the awesomee
This is exactly the problem with Florida. Many people come down here to "run away" from their problems and enjoy the sunshine and think being here will make all their issues disappear. Well, they just end up moving down here with no job and bring their BS problems with them and get addicted to pain killers. We need to send the losers of this state packing back where they came from.
100% agreed. I could have moved anywhere, I moved here. Why? Because I would love to live in NYC for a year or two when I return and the kids are gone... but that is probably all I could take. I would NEVER want to raise my kids there. I think this is a great place to raise kids.... tons to do... lots of nature.
Unfortunately many losers who run away from their problems find that their problems follow them. Unfortunately, it is typically losers who do the running and they run down here. Which stinks but on the plus side make me look totally awesome in prospective employers eyes and helps me out in the long run.
I have no problems with Tampa not making any of these best lists. I don't want this town to be overran by a population boom. I saw it happen in Seattle and Austin. Both places known for their natural beauty and now both are concrete jungles. Seattle has a good downtown which is the center of the metro area... which is nice. Austin is sprawl, you drive on highways for miles and miles and see nothing but asphalt and strip malls. Why would one become dense and the other would sprawl? Geography and land values my friends. Seattle has no where to go but up and Austin has tons of cheap land... so it sprawls. Obviously Hillsborough would sprawl, Pinellas would get even more dense. If I want to visit a big downtown I'll drive to Miami or Atlanta. I couldn't care less about having a big downtown here and the problems that comes with them.
Kash! a ticket to a Broadway show is a lot cheaper than a BOAT!
Do you know much it costs to buy a boat? rent a boat? store a boat? did the thought that maybe some of us don't find entertainment in outdoor sports crossed your mind? I just met someone recently who lived in Tampa for the last 6 years and has not gone to the beach ONCE! My face dropped...but then I realized that not everyone is into that! you should realize that too. Not everyone is into water sports.
Everything you mentioned are outdoor sports that are available everywhere, and are seasonal up north. Nothing interesting here.
IF they would have Broadway type shows here, I would have a Playbill annual subscription just like we have Disney Annual passes. Do you think a Disney trip is free of other charges? it would cost me less to go downtown here and see a good show. You forget to count on gas, food etc on these longer trips. Plus, these Broadways shows wouldn't be for the whole family for us yet...maybe us and one kid, depending on what we see, but it would just be for myself and my husband who happen to APPRECIATE the arts for their true value, and not lump them in with football, and water sports. You can play tennis anywhere, I even play it on the Wii!!!!! but I cannot see a good representation of Swan Lake anywhere in Tampa, and I technically should be able to see it no problem. Tampa is a big enough town to have that. My point is that there is plenty to room for all sorts of entertainment here.
I walk everyday...and when I go to the beach, I go to relax, not fight with the fish, and get beaten down by the sun!
"Entertainment" is very very SUBJECTIVE. I would prefer to go see a Cirque Du Soleil in Tampa, rather than at down town Disney because sometimes I just don't want to do that drive! How come we don't have a Disney Concert Hall in Tampa, so I don't have to go all the way to Los Angeles for that! one venue that would do very well here BTW.
I appreciate college plays etc, but I would like something more professional once every 3, 4 weeks. It would be nice to take my daughter to see a Coppelia Matinee...for example...or Snow while, or Sleeping Beauty whenever I want during the season. It would be nice for Tampa to have its own ballet company like Miami does, with an yearly season of different ballets, and its own building. Every respectable town in America has at least 1 major ballet company. Be my guest and check if you don't believe me. I appreciate what they're doing at the Performing art center, but it is very minimal, and they need to detach into their own building and have permanent performances available, and establish themselves as a fixture of the area, like the Mali museum for example, or MOSI.
BTW You live in Carrollwood, have you seen the local paper a few weeks ago with that girl that got accepted at Julliard? how cool was that? there are a LOT of talented children here, and they deserve to have ALL the arts available to them, not brainwashed into water sports, and football non stop! Like I said, there is plenty of room for every kind of entertainment.
Kash! a ticket to a Broadway show is a lot cheaper than a BOAT!
Is it? I can rent a boat for 2 hours for $99 that 5 people can fit on comfortably. So that's $10/hr per person for entertainment. Let's see if I can find a 2 hour Broadway show for $20 ticket. I doubt it.
My point was to bring up that there is plenty of Entertainment here in the area. Different, entertainment... yes. But you had to know that very few Broadway shows come here when you first lived here and I know you knew for sure when you came back a second time.
FWIW - I;m not much into going to movie Theaters either. I do love the FunLan Drive In though! Super inexpensive and tons of fun for the family!
Different strokes for different folks. I would much rather enjoy physical and outdoor activities than going to a play. I do enjoy Theater... it's just not as important to me.
Algia, you probably know Sarasota has ballet, opera, playhouses and more, but I will post a few here anyway. A bit of a drive for you, but not terrible if you want to come down once in awhile:
This isn't everything, but it's a good start! This area is blessed with so many cultural gems - and it's a pretty easy drive down I-75 from Tampa to get to any of them.
Of course I do, hence my earlier comment that if it wasn't for the kids school we'd be there now.
I spend over 23 years in a stage performing environment, and I am not a water sports fan.
The point is that a Tampa is big enough to accomodate more classic arts weather you like it or not.
Thanks Gypsy for putting the links here, hopefully more people realize that entertainment doesn't end in sports.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsychic
Algia, you probably know Sarasota has ballet, opera, playhouses and more, but I will post a few here anyway. A bit of a drive for you, but not terrible if you want to come down once in awhile:
This isn't everything, but it's a good start! This area is blessed with so many cultural gems - and it's a pretty easy drive down I-75 from Tampa to get to any of them.
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