Is Tampa Bay big enough to support rail lines? (Miami: condos, hotel)

[tpajr]

Originally Posted by gonzoUSF

That was quite the arrogant statement to make considering you provided no facts to support such a claim.

relax slugger. the op asked "what do you think" and i posted my response in the form of "i think"

HART is a joke. Anyone who is from anywhere that actually has transit knows what a joke it really is. Until there is a regional transit authority covering the needs of the region then rail is nothing but a crack pipe smokers dream.

So dream on slugger.

[gonzoUSF]

Clever response. If the only way you can communicate with people is by going around and attempting to make rash and otherwise uncalled for statements, the more power to you.

I called you out, because what you stated wasn't an opinion. You made a statement that had zero factual support and I simply rebutted. Whether or not HART is a joke (which is an opinion) as no relation to your statement that "The area barely even supports a bus system."

[kmarc]

Gonzo, thanks for your posts on this. Great data here, very well presented. It is much appreciated by me, and I wish some OTHERS could really examine the data and the pros and cons without letting their (ahem!) fixed opinions get in the way. Sigh.

[algia]

Originally Posted by thethinktank

Ignoring everything else, I'll just skip to the content:



This comparison doesn't work-- the cities of Europe developed on a completely different scale than the cities in the US, with the exception of New York, Boston and a few others. Europe's cities are thousands of years old. Their urban road systems largely pre-date the automobile, and so do many of their rail systems. London's tube first opened in 1863, decades before automobiles were introduced into the traffic pool.

Europe's cities largely grew around rail lines. In the US, the automobile was a driving force for suburban sprawl. As a result of the residential sprawl, extra-urban rail transit requires park-and-ride to sustain itself. It's not a side effect of poor planning, it's a result of an auto-centric path of urban development. That's what's so different about cities in the US vs. cities in Europe-- especially a young city like Tampa whose development mostly came after the advent of the automobile.

There are rail lines buried in Tampa dating back to the 1900's!

I mentioned this earlier I lived in a suburb, some 20 miles from the city center and had 6 ways of public transit in a suburb developed in the early 70's, and not 5000+ years ago.

Builders here had horse glasses on; all they saw was the ever increasing balance of their bank accts, and not how the area will end up functioning for those buying those homes. The difference here is that nice/clean residential areas have been moved further and further from the city center creating the sprawl, and the endless predicament over PT.


How many of you are using HART daily? Or how many of you CAN/Could use it daily, and why are you not using it now? That's a fair question.

[Stewabby]

Originally Posted by algia

Hey if BBD gets rail that would be fantastic for all the people who live off of it. Not to mention that if they cleaned up Florida Ave it could run straight from downtown all the way to Wesley chapel...LOOOOOTS of ppl could benefit.


WHAT? You obviously don't know what you're talking about.......Make ANY right and left off Dale Mabry and you end up in residential areas ALL OVER IT. From Kennedy Blvd all the way up to SR-54, and further north all the way to Conerton there are TONS of ppl living off of it...You're going to make me make a map.....yes, there is a LOT of shopping ON Dale Mabry itself...VERY CONVENIENT to those who live right behind it....but to call it "low density" is ridiculous. This is the main drag here, and NOT BBD....Also in Carrollwood two zip codes 33624 and 33618 are Tampa. Mail reads: "Tampa, FL 33624/33618 smack in the middle of Carrollwood.

Shush honey. The big kids are talking.

[Jimrob1]

Maybe the place to voice these type comments is with HART itself. If not with HART. Then with those in political office, that have some voice in such matters. I seriously doubt there is much of a voice, going on in that arena in Tampa. If there was. Then at least some of the transit options commented about. Would be in operation today, or in the near future. When everything is all added up. Isn't the population itself part of the problem. How much demand and how much pressure, have they put on this subject thru the years. Probably very little.

[tampagator89]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

Why not allow the Tampa/St Pete/Lakeland/Orlando areas to become one large metro, then build a bullet train. Everyone wins.

You know, in 50 years or so...you never know. That could actually be the reality.

[tampagator89]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

If you'll notice, a large number of our roadways, overpasses, and bridges are reaching their estimated lifetime age, and are in need or repairs or replacements.

Where will that money come from once we're building a profitless train that will be used by only 20% of the population? (that's a VERY liberal estimate)

This is a good point, too. Something tells me that this will only get taken care of once a few bridges start collapsing across the US and people die. When that happens, who knows.

[tpajr]

Originally Posted by gonzoUSF

You made a statement that had zero factual support and I simply rebutted. Whether or not HART is a joke (which is an opinion) as no relation to your statement that "The area barely even supports a bus system."

try quoting what people write. i posted an opinion, in response to a request for opinions. the op didnt ask for book reports.

you want to post stupid untrue statements about what people say be prepared for responses in kind.

try back tracking to the point where you decided you had to rebut my opinion. try reading what i originally wrote, in response to what the op originally posted.

dont bother attacking me for responding to someone else, when they ask "what do you think" and i respond to someone else with a sentence that has in it "i think"

dont bother changing the subject of your original misconstrued attack on me posting my opinion. just drop it, pretend you never made such a stupid mistake, and go on about your nonsensical business of fantasy rail humping.

[gonzoUSF]

[Originally Posted by planedition
As I was driving along the Selmon expressway today, I thought they could easily build a rail line down that thing. Do you think Tampa has a population willing to support this kind of public transit?]

The above is what you replied to originally, which I full quoted right below this.

Originally Posted by tpajr

I dont think so, no. The area barely even supports a bus system.

Your opinion "I don't think so, no" going base on the context of the sentence is in response to the question planedition posed which is; "Do you think Tampa has a population willing to support this kind of public transit?" No where have I argued against that opinion why? Because it's an opinion, everyone has one.

The part I have been talking specifically about, replied to and quoted specifically, is "The area barely even supports a bus system." That is not a opinion based on the context of the sentence, that would be a statement, a statement with zero factual support.

Originally Posted by tpajr

try quoting what people write. i posted an opinion, in response to a request for opinions. the op didnt ask for book reports.

you want to post stupid untrue statements about what people say be prepared for responses in kind.

try back tracking to the point where you decided you had to rebut my opinion. try reading what i originally wrote, in response to what the op originally posted.

dont bother attacking me for responding to someone else, when they ask "what do you think" and i respond to someone else with a sentence that has in it "i think"

dont bother changing the subject of your original misconstrued attack on me posting my opinion. just drop it, pretend you never made such a stupid mistake, and go on about your nonsensical business of fantasy rail humping.

So again, I quoted you right in my most recent post and I again just quoted you right.

Also when did a multiple paragraph, well thought out response become a book report.

On top of that, please post out my "stupid untrue statements about what people say", while you are doing that please also point out when I "attacked" you. I actually believe you were the first one to attack me and continue to do so through elementary rhetoric.