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So you're saying because people can't afford to pay for first class they deserve to be treated like cattle?! That the airline industry is perfectly right to despise and ignore the MILLIONS of people paying the basic cost simply because they are being frugal or because they are business travellers whose company won't allow them to buy a more expensive seat?! WTF?
So you're saying because people can't afford to pay for first class they deserve to be treated like cattle?! That the airline industry is perfectly right to despise and ignore the MILLIONS of people paying the basic cost simply because they are being frugal or because they are business travellers whose company won't allow them to buy a more expensive seat?! WTF?
How does the airline ignore the other passengers? They are given seats and allowed to board. I don't see that as ignoring them. What do you mean by treating them like cattle? Coach pax are boarded the exact same way as first class.
So you're saying because people can't afford to pay for first class they deserve to be treated like cattle?!
if you are buying the "Cattle Treatment" seat at "Cattle Treatment" prices, why should you get more than "Cattle Treatment"? You buy cheap coach class tickets, you get treated like a cheap coach class passeneger.
Because the airline industry treats its passengers like cattle.
You could always book a charter or learn to fly your own airplane. You get what you pay for...
If they treat you better, give you more legroom, bigger seats, more meals...that costs money. Bigger seats means less seats in the airplane which means everyone else pays more (look at American's More Room in Coach failure...cheap Americans wouldn't pay more for more legroom). Less "cattle" treatment means hiring more customer service agents that YOU won't pay for. The legacies tried that but found people weren't willing to pay for it. Instead, people flock to the lowest fare.
if you are buying the "Cattle Treatment" seat at "Cattle Treatment" prices, why should you get more than "Cattle Treatment"? You buy cheap coach class tickets, you get treated like a cheap coach class passeneger.
This is your classic airline attitude - that we should just be happy that they are there. The legacy airlines basically give is the mushroom treatment ... put us in a box. pour manure on us and expect us to be happy.
The last time I remember looking at a website a few days ago is that the AIRLINES SET THE PRICES, not the consumer. If they cannot make a profit as they have over committed to their employees or they have a flawed business model, that is THEIR fault.
Maybe, just maybe they could charge more if they had a service that could be differentiated from the discount airlines. However, the only differentiation that I have seen when flying American, Delta, and United is that they offer service that is ruder than Southwest and Jet Blue (as well as more flight delays and more equipment failures).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights
if you are buying the "Cattle Treatment" seat at "Cattle Treatment" prices, why should you get more than "Cattle Treatment"? You buy cheap coach class tickets, you get treated like a cheap coach class passeneger.
Uh ... Even coach tickets are expensive to the average passenger and first-class seats are just out of their price range ... Does that mean we deserve rude treatment by airline personnel especially when there are flight delays or lost baggage?
This is your classic airline attitude - that we should just be happy that they are there. The legacy airlines basically give is the mushroom treatment ... put us in a box. pour manure on us and expect us to be happy.
The last time I remember looking at a website a few days ago is that the AIRLINES SET THE PRICES, not the consumer. If they cannot make a profit as they have over committed to their employees or they have a flawed business model, that is THEIR fault.
Maybe, just maybe they could charge more if they had a service that could be differentiated from the discount airlines. However, the only differentiation that I have seen when flying American, Delta, and United is that they offer service that is ruder than Southwest and Jet Blue (as well as more flight delays and more equipment failures).
Explain the part about dumping manure? I've flown Delta and United quite a bit, and have had an overall pleasant experience. Maybe its because im used to it, i have a status, or am generally nice to the agents/attendants. I've managed through numerous cancellations, 6+ hour stints in the tarmac. I've also seen obnoxious passengers who would deserve the rude attitude.
I will agree that Soutwest and Jetblue are nicer; however, i think Southwest employees (especially attendants) can be downright corny and annoying; most people like it but for me i just want to go through the routines, and leave me be.
As for maintenance, i don't know if your statement is true. But on the surface it makes sense, as Jetblue is a newer company with newer fleet, and Southwest has only one type of plane to streamline maintenance, though there have been recent issues with 737 fuselage cracks.
The whole airline experience is just ridiculous for the average person.
1st - Not knowing what to expect when you get there. Imagine going to a mcdonalds or walmart, and never knowing what to expect? Wouldn't that be tiring?
The whole airline experience wears people out.....i.e., you're treated like a criminal, "the cattle mentality", they charge for this meal, they charge for this pillow....this movie is free. They don't take credit cards? It's all so arbitrary, none of it makes any sense.
Imagine going to mcdonalds. One time, they charge you for water. When you go a month later, you have to pay 50 more cents to sit in the front. Another time, they dont take credit cards, cash only for food or drink. Wouldn't that get tiring?
Or McDonalds charging one price for SUV's parking. Another price for regular cars. Like the bags. An extra bag is $50? and it use to be free? What if you went golfing or on a ski trip every year. Would you know what to allocate for luggage charges? I know what to expect from a walmart or mcdonalds (with reasonable certainty) in 9 months or a year. The same certainty just isn't there for airlines.
2nd - The problem with the airlines, they've spread themselves too thin, trying to be all things to all people. They end up excelling at nothing. Whats the difference between delta or united?
3rd - The "food" (I use that term loosely) is ridiculous for a consumer use to choice and variety. A ham sandwich or chicken? I dont expect a gourmet meal. What about pizza or a burger? Why are those never on flights?
Why don't they have different levels of a menu. I.e., 1st class. Then economy. Then another rung down. Then a fourth level (like for kids). Thus, parents can enjoy something. Different for the 15 year old. Different for the 8 year old. There's no imagination.
I think the test for airline food quality, could you sell it off the airline. Would people really buy this if they had 10 other places to choose from? In many cases, no.
If low cost flights are the excuse for awful service, someone in the industry should draw the line somewhere imo.
The problem is a uneven playing field. Companies like Jetblue, Virgin America, and Frontier have lower costs because they pay their employees little. Southwest has a lower cost business model that is efficient for the airline but inefficient for connecting travelers.
The legacies maintain more complex companies that offer more expensive services, such as first class (which is often filled with elite upgrades and employees flying standby), lounges, hub networks, pay their employees more...
This is why so many legacies lose money. Southwest is a bare-bones company along with its other low cost peers. The result is different cost structures and fares that the low cost carriers can get away with but legacies (who don't want to lose market share can't).
Like any company though, costs go up. The glory days of cheap Jetblue or even Southwest tickets is fast coming to end, especially as they gain pricing power.
For those of you that complain about ticket prices now, wait until a few more mergers occur, airlines cut capacity, and raise prices back to realistic prices. The days of $250 trancons are fast ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23
Whats the difference between delta or united?
Actually quite a lot. There are frequent flyers who spend hours trying to figure out which airline to go with as they often fly upward of 50,000 miles a year. They look at mileage program benefits for elites, access to flights where they live, quality of first class seats, and chances at upgrading. Although most Americans consider Delta and United to equally suck, most frequent business travelers have a preference. And quite to the contrary in coach class, there is a revolution going on in first class as airlines try to revamp meals, add lie flat seats, upgrade entertainment, and improve the frequent flyer program. The airlines will reward you if you fly with them a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23
I know what to expect from a walmart or mcdonalds (with reasonable certainty) in 9 months or a year. The same certainty just isn't there for airlines.
Airlines have tried simplified pricing and have been undercut. Again, not a problem but when people stop flying your airline because the other guys undercuts by $5, you have a problem. Yes, some elites will pay extra for their airline choice but the reality is that most Americans don't care. Most industries are becoming more complex in their pricing (like telecommunications, airlines) because the number one goal to appeal to Americans to have the lowest price. Remember, you and every other American decides what the company provides. If we boycotted companies that exported jobs, they would change their ways. Same thing with the airlines. Sadly, most consumers today don't think about the implications of their purchasing decisions on future moves by the company or industry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23
The "food" (I use that term loosely) is ridiculous for a consumer use to choice and variety. A ham sandwich or chicken? I dont expect a gourmet meal. What about pizza or a burger? Why are those never on flights?
Airlines still serve meals on international flights. On domestic flights of two to three hours, I can't see why people can't go a few hours without a hot meal or buy a meal before they depart from a company (Applebees) that has less costs affected by providing food.. Again though, it comes down to prices. When the legacy carriers were full service, they served meals. But they were undercut by carriers like Southwest which prompted people to choose Southwest. Well, what do you think Delta is going to do, run themselves out of business?
Remember, the airlines have huge costs associated with bringing food onboard as I mentioned in my first post.
-> they have to establish a contract with a catering company, raising costs
-> they have to increase the turn-around times of their airplanes to put more stuff onboard, reducing the productivity of the airplane, raising costs
-> they have to employ extra workers to put this food onboard (remember, they already pay pilots, flight attendants, management, mechanics, cleaning crews, customer service, gate agents, baggage handlers...) and take the waste off.
-> they have to pay in extra fuel by carrying meals for 2 flights (one away from the hub and one back to the hub) which adds up to millions of dollars a year.
A 5 dollar meal quickly becomes 25 dollar meal. Now, next time you go on Expedia and see airline A charging $285 (with no meal) and airline B charging $310 (free meal), who will you take?
Remember that most airlines offer you snack boxes or sandwhiches for purchase. It's all about making the industry a pay-for-use industry where fares are kept as low as possible and people pay for that which they want.
As consumers get more price senstive, the airlines will continue to simplify what you are paying for. Eventually, it may just be a seat from point A to point B. I see a day when milwage programs may be eliminated and even free drink service. Somebody will undercut the competition...
Last edited by MINresident; 07-29-2011 at 12:43 AM..
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