U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-04-2013, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,576,598 times
Reputation: 10299

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologic View Post
Dying Shopping Malls : Where? Why? Remedies

...
Where: Many places.
Why: A variety of reasons.
Remedy: Nothing - the free market will be the remedy.

The mall is private commercial property - nothing needs to be done.

[this is not an urban planning problem]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-04-2013, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,889,188 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEETC View Post
Where: Many places.
Why: A variety of reasons.
Remedy: Nothing - the free market will be the remedy.

The mall is private commercial property - nothing needs to be done.

[this is not an urban planning problem]
Brick and mortar is so... 20th century.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2013, 09:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal & Mid-TN
2,201 posts, read 2,139,668 times
Reputation: 2636
In Nashville, TN two malls have closed in the past 7 years. The newer and smaller of the two, in a more upper-middle class area, was the Bellevue Mall. Wanting very badly to be upscale, it opened in 1990 and closed in 2006 or so. The area had been growing and there were more new apartment and condo developments coming in. It's on the outskirts of town, just off of the interstate highway going west (I-40). There wasn't really anything out there, shopping wise and it did okay at first. Let me say that the design was bad - there was a lot of empty space and it seemed like you had to walk a long way to get anywhere.

The second mall was at one time the largest in the area - opening in 1978 with the last anchor stores closing in Jan of 2012 - Hickory Hollow Mall. It was a great mall and generated a lot of outlying retail around it. It' in Antioch, which had been a solidly middle class area for a long time. Somewhat on the outskirts of town, off of the interstate heading southeast (I-24) but with more vibrant and populate towns in the neighboring county.

Now, many people in Nashville will tell you that HHM went down because of a large influx of Hispanic immigrants to the area and too many "gang like" teens hanging around (despite the fact that Antioch is a huge area that is still majority white workings class). They offer no suggestions on Bellevue. It should be note that a new mall, Cool Springs, opened in Brentwood - not exactly mid-way between the two because it's actually in the next county south - but it seems to have played a big role in the decline of the two previous mentions. Also, smaller malls and shopping districts opened in two other counties to the southeast. These are no doubt drawing some from the suburbs (and these counties are home to a lot of commuters because housing is cheaper). But it leaves the people in Antioch and Bellevue with a rather long drive to get to decent shopping which is a real pain (I know because I live in Antioch for all of 2012).

Here in Los Angeles we have these new Disney-esque mixed use developments like the Grove and the Americana at Brand (in Glendale, CA - an LA suburb). The same developer did both - faux Main Street design with fountains, a green area, trolley, and apartments and condos on the upper floor (expensive ones). I was at one of these yesterday. Lots of people walking around, some of the restaurants pretty busy, but don't know how much money was changing hands. A lot of the stores are upscale and were pretty empty. On the other hand, the Glendale Galleria (across the street) was packed and it is a traditional "mall".

Last edited by Spikett; 03-04-2013 at 09:28 PM.. Reason: juxtaposition
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2013, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,087 posts, read 17,576,598 times
Reputation: 10299
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Brick and mortar is so... 20th century.
For the bread and butter stuff it is.

[the internet is a double-edged sword]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2013, 09:43 PM
 
2,971 posts, read 2,753,570 times
Reputation: 6569
Malls tended in the USA to be built in advance of rapidly developing suburban areas with hopes of targeting ever increasing buying power in expanding areas. A few were built as destination locations based on scale to replicate old 'Main Street Commercial Centers' and "Central marketplace'. Most malls retail mix seem analogous to cable TV packages with hundreds of retailers (channels) of which 95% you don't want or need. Thus, why go to a central marketplace anymore?

1) I believe in aggregate, the average declining hhold size, declining / stagnant real wages and high pervasive 'un', and more aptly, 'under', employment coupled with a demographic tsunami of households with declining discretionary cash means a few things. Declining velocity of sales per SF which is an endemic problem with majority of retailers populating malls.

2) Inherent problems of Mall development (and real estate development in general) short time frame mindset to put up disposable construction to 'turn' in 7-10 years. Couple this with location transitions due to migration patterns of those with gainful employment and the drifting dispersed (and diminishing) buying power within many areas exposes the fundamental problem of having more retail SF per capita than needed. This 'carpet bombing' development pattern can be found in most stagnant metros as well as in ill placed malls in hopes of them being 'destination' locations when most of the basic shopping needs of people can be found in power / strip malls with a good retail mix and these are generally higher velocity and more convenient.

Remedies
3) Some malls in the USA seem better used for low security detention centers for the Jerry Springer audience crowd, and the subsequent 'free' baby sitter daycare facility for some demographics. This does not make them very attractive to the more goal oriented shopper who just wants to get things they need without wading through endless outer ring roads, surface parking lots, and then often doing the same within the built confiines of the mall. I think 'urban / suburban' versions of outward bound type programs seem a logical good use, as well as redesigned in some regions specifically for central disaster planning.

The percent of people who actually can take a 'trip' to the mall to purchase from the countless evaporating retailers (with compressed viable business model cycles) are declining for a vast majority of households in the stagnant / declining income mode.

Higher density redevelopment of mixed use in some of the better locations along good public transportation will be good candidates for communities seeking a better mix of residential housing types.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2013, 11:16 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,989,888 times
Reputation: 18050
It largely dpoends on the mall and the area its in. mnay large cities have huge nimber of malls but likely now just a few are full. Last staurady Galleria in Hoston was closed because it was at maxm imum allowed. Many malles tho have gone down hill that I have seen but the same has happened to areas in general once people with real money move outward.The market control by consumer control what happens;pian and simple.We have a mall nearby and altho I ahte malls it is doig well by evrythigi see. But it alos has hugh nmber of new stores builidng nearby;sowho knows the future;the peopel will decide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 12:00 AM
 
Location: California
51 posts, read 86,883 times
Reputation: 59
So what did they do to this beautifull country?......They turned it into a Friggin Mall..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 05:38 AM
 
21,204 posts, read 30,412,852 times
Reputation: 19650
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Brick and mortar is so... 20th century.
Perhaps for those who never enjoyed the shopping process in the first place. The majority tend to enjoy the experience and like to see/touch something before buying, and most likely will continue to shop utilizing the traditional socially well-adjusted method.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 06:06 AM
 
6,635 posts, read 4,604,790 times
Reputation: 13350
Quote:
Originally Posted by EVAunit1981 View Post
I don't how to save malls but I'm sure you'll say that mass transit and walkable cities are the answer.
Few cars and no suburbs. Don't forget those.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2013, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
32,394 posts, read 59,890,532 times
Reputation: 54037
I asked this question in another thread:

If malls are dying, why are the parking lots so full?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Urban Planning
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top