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Old 01-11-2015, 08:23 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,966 posts, read 24,156,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Burdick Street in Kalamazoo, Michigan is widely regarded as the first pedestrian mall in America. It opened in 1959, and over the next two decades 200 American cities followed suit, converted some blocks of their downtown to pedestrian only streets. As of 2005, only 20 of the original 200 pedestrian malls were still traffic-free. Burdick Street introduced cars back in 1998. Here is a picture of Burdick Street taken in 1960.
Perhaps it's widely regarded as the first pedestrian mall by those who want to ignore Lincoln Road Mall in Miami Beach. Lincoln Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have never subscribed to the idea that the pedestrian roads themselves are a failed idea. Let's be real here, NOTHING would have worked during the white flight of the 60's-80s in typical American cities. Small college towns and resort towns may be exceptions but even Lincoln Road went into disrepair and had many shuttered buildings during this period. The "when" of these failed experiences is much more important to their failure than the "what". I have to wonder how many of the former pedestrian malls would have fared today if they hadn't been returned to streets? I think it's unfortunate that the the pedestrian mall's demise is chronicled as as a contributing factor to the rise of the city center when it may have actually just been a coincidence of timing but how do we know? ...back to Lincoln Road. While it's not a typical context for a pedestrian mall, I do think it's interesting that its rents have skyrocketed and the pedestrian mall has actually been expanded another block west in the last decade.
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Old 01-11-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Portsmouth, VA
6,509 posts, read 8,450,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
A few years go they experimented with turning Times Square into a temporary pedestrian plaza.
When it turned out to be a boon to businesses they made the pedestrian zone permanent as it is today.

Commercial rents in Times Square doubled along with foot traffic and tourism to business.
The accident and injury rate to pedestrians and drivers dropped to zero as did the traffic congestion.
To say that it has no benefit is not correct.
To be fair NYC is one of the one few cities in America with the density to pull that thing off. There are huge swaths of Manhattan that could be pedestrian only, and that might work with the exception of making deliveries in and out of those neighborhoods.
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Old 01-11-2015, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,317,133 times
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Federal street in Youngstown Ohio was closed to vehicular traffic. At that time downtown was already in decline. Closing the street didn't help and it was reopened in 2005.

Downtown Youngstown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.msconsultants.com/federal...evitalization/


http://businessjournaldaily.com/fede...eers-2004-12-8
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Old 01-11-2015, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,001 posts, read 35,171,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
I doubt it was even tried at a time when the car obsession, white flight from downtown areas
and suburbanization was at its peak.

But I wasn't around in the sixties so I wouldn't know for sure. But if there were so many failures then
you shouldn't have a problem providing some specific examples?
Norfolk, VA tried to make Granby St a pedestrian mall which was a complete failure that shut down most of the businesses unless your business was a drug dealer or prostitute. During the build up of the car era downtowns tried to compete with suburban malls by turning retail streets into pedestrian streets and most of them failed.
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Old 01-11-2015, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,958 posts, read 75,174,114 times
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From 1977 (ish) to 1993, Erie restricted traffic to buses on four blocks of State Street for about 12-14 hours a day - I'm not remembering exactly how long - Monday through Saturday. State Street was narrowed from 4 lanes plus parking to 2 lanes. It was called the Transitway Mall and was intended to bring shoppers and business back to downtown.

Motorists, downtown workers and business owners hated it. Shoppers didn't come back.

I worked downtown and took the bus, so I didn't mind. The wide sidewalks were great, especially when running for the bus. The redesign included lots of benches, tables, checkerboard tables, trees and planters. It certainly was easier to cross the street. But it did make those four blocks of downtown feel cramped.

Now State Street is back to four lanes with parking, but narrowed at intersections, which makes it safer to cross the street.

Another one of my hometowns, Painesville, Ohio, ripped out its pedestrian mall in the 90s as well. The mall split downtown in two, cutting the beautiful town square off from the rest of downtown. It was an ugly sea of concrete, and I'm glad it's gone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
and where gambling degenerates congregate (Las Vegas).
Heyyyy ... I like Fremont Street. But it is meant for tourists, not for daily commerce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
A few years go they experimented with turning Times Square into a temporary pedestrian plaza.
When it turned out to be a boon to businesses they made the pedestrian zone permanent as it is today.
I would hardly use New York as an example of a typical American city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
pedestrianization
Egad. What policy wonk came up with that horrific word?

If that ever makes it into the AP Stylebook, I'm going to stab myself with an Xacto knife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Nice way to stereotype people. Boulder is a college town with very high student population.
Most of whom don't work for a living.
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Old 01-11-2015, 08:41 PM
 
3,697 posts, read 4,996,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
From 1977 (ish) to 1993, Erie restricted traffic to buses on four blocks of State Street for about 12-14 hours a day - I'm not remembering exactly how long - Monday through Saturday. State Street was narrowed from 4 lanes plus parking to 2 lanes. It was called the Transitway Mall and was intended to bring shoppers and business back to downtown.

Motorists, downtown workers and business owners hated it. Shoppers didn't come back.
Chicago likewise tried to turn it's State Street into an pedestrian mall in 1979 and it was likewise disastrous. Retail which was in decline already declined further. Shoppers didn't come back. Wasn't an problem for most motorists as no one in the right mind would drive downtown daily for work unless they had good reason but for an very important category of motorist it was an problem: Tourist. Not everyone felt safe using public transit to get to downtown and sometimes people from rural areas and burbs drive in and spend the day downtown. The revamp in the 90ies that allowed traffic helped bring it back some.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:15 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,951,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofy328 View Post
To be fair NYC is one of the one few cities in America with the density to pull that thing off. There are huge swaths of Manhattan that could be pedestrian only, and that might work with the exception of making deliveries in and out of those neighborhoods.



Pearl Street Mall is a successful four block pedestrian street in Boulder CO, a city that isn't nearly as dense as NYC.
Which proves your assertion wrong.
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Old 01-13-2015, 06:26 PM
 
4,019 posts, read 3,951,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Norfolk, VA tried to make Granby St a pedestrian mall which was a complete failure that shut down most of the businesses unless your business was a drug dealer or prostitute. During the build up of the car era downtowns tried to compete with suburban malls by turning retail streets into pedestrian streets and most of them failed.

And yet today many of those suburban shopping malls you speak are failing, or have failed
and have been been shut down and are now home to assorted vagrants and vandals.
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,729,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cisco kid View Post
Pearl Street Mall is a successful four block pedestrian street in Boulder CO, a city that isn't nearly as dense as NYC.
Which proves your assertion wrong.
You ignored what has been said about Pearl St, e.g. parking garages surrounding it, lots of university students and faculty who live closeby.
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Old 01-13-2015, 07:53 PM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,279,332 times
Reputation: 1483
This might be a interesting reasoning on the FAILURE of making CHICAGO'S original shopping street in the Loop. A pedestrian mall on the 80s. It failed big time loosing its department stores in that era . In the mid-90s it was turned back to a traffic street an has become successful since. Michigan Ave or Magnificent Mile... took over as Chicago's première shopping street. But State Street still has the old Marshal Field iconic department store.... though as a Macy's now. The street basically has all the suburban Mall stores.... including a Target. On the National Landmark list... in former Carson Pierre Scot store building designed by Louis Sullivan. A Sears even moved back... it actually began on the street. The street looks great and is thriving again... But then all downtown Chicago is.

The short, sad life of State Street's pedestrian mall

The Malls of Downtown Chicago, Illinois | Labelscar
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