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Old 01-24-2015, 07:30 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
(Although the "bargaining chips" argument she keeps coming back to is hard to justify. Does she think we're talking about 4th graders, or college graduates? The fact is, not only does the Millennial generation include college graduates, it includes those who have been graduated for 7-8 years. That's room for a lot of potential professional experience.)
"She" is right here and doesn't appreciate being talked about as if she's not. My point is, Millennials as a group are young. Someone born in 1990 is only turning 25 this year; is likely only to have been out of college (if they attended) a year or two. I'm sorry guys, these people don't have a lot of bargaining power. You come out of college with a degree, you're an unknown quantity. You're no different than the many other college grads out there looking for a job. You have no professional work experience, except perhaps some sort of internship in college. You're not in a position to be able to ask for much. In a few years, yes, you've got experience and somewhat of a professional track record.

"She" has hired a few people. "She" can tell you, most all new graduate nurses look the same on paper. They're blank slates as far as professional credentials go. They're an unknown quantity. And frankly, one can Google articles about what NOT to ask in interviews; creature comfort stuff and benefits are usually no-nos.

And to nei-I don't know why Pew defines Millennials that way. Heck, the millennial didn't happen until 2000. And one definition takes the birth year to 2004. I posted some other links about this earlier. I was being facetious, about the cat-sitting, but I'm trying to remind you young 'uns that Millennials are a young group. The only ones who have significant work experience are those born in the early 80s, and even some of them have spent a lot of time in grad school and have less than 10 years of work experience. Certainly the ones who get written up in these fluff pieces of urban mags have lots of education and haven't been in the workplace long.

I have to say also, this talk reminds me of the way we Boomers talked back in the early 70s. "We" were going to be so different from our parents' generation. "We" weren't going to toe the corporate line, work long hours at a desk (no cubicles back then to speak of); "we" were going to take our vacations as we saw fit, not worry about "opportunity for advancement", yada, yada. See what happened?

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 01-24-2015 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:56 AM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,071,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I think the thread is referring to adult Millennials, especially since we're talking about the job market:

The Pew Research Center, an American think tank organization, defined "adult Millennials" as those who are 18 to 34 years old, born 1981–1997.[20] And according to them, the youngest Millennials are still "in their teens" with "no chronological end point set for them yet". Another chart by the organization lists the Millennial birth range as 1981–1999.

While fresh out of college workers don't have the best bargaining position, companies do go to colleges and recruit and sell themselves. Work environment may or may not be something they use to market themselves.
I can understand why you viewed my post directed at FallsAngel as rude. However, you have to admit that it's rather careless, dismissive and, yes, rude, to let a hypthotetical 4th grader stand in for a group that is widely recognized as being 18 and up.

Last edited by rwiksell; 01-24-2015 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,094,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I think the thread is referring to adult Millennials, especially since we're talking about the job market:

The Pew Research Center, an American think tank organization, defined "adult Millennials" as those who are 18 to 34 years old, born 19811997.[20] And according to them, the youngest Millennials are still "in their teens" with "no chronological end point set for them yet". Another chart by the organization lists the Millennial birth range as 19811999.

While fresh out of college workers don't have the best bargaining position, companies do go to colleges and recruit and sell themselves. Work environment may or may not be something they use to market themselves.
Work environment mostly certainly is for some. Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft are all pretty famous for having pretty great work environments far beyond your normal cubicle and standard office break room.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:30 AM
 
1,319 posts, read 1,071,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
"She" is right here and doesn't appreciate being talked about as if she's not. My point is, Millennials as a group are young. Someone born in 1990 is only turning 25 this year; is likely only to have been out of college (if they attended) a year or two. I'm sorry guys, these people don't have a lot of bargaining power. You come out of college with a degree, you're an unknown quantity. You're no different than the many other college grads out there looking for a job. You have no professional work experience, except perhaps some sort of internship in college. You're not in a position to be able to ask for much. In a few years, yes, you've got experience and somewhat of a professional track record.

"She" has hired a few people. "She" can tell you, most all new graduate nurses look the same on paper. They're blank slates as far as professional credentials go. They're an unknown quantity. And frankly, one can Google articles about what NOT to ask in interviews; creature comfort stuff and benefits are usually no-nos.

And to nei-I don't know why Pew defines Millennials that way. Heck, the millennial didn't happen until 2000. And one definition takes the birth year to 2004. I posted some other links about this earlier. I was being facetious, about the cat-sitting, but I'm trying to remind you young 'uns that Millennials are a young group. The only ones who have significant work experience are those born in the early 80s, and even some of them have spent a lot of time in grad school and have less than 10 years of work experience. Certainly the ones who get written up in these fluff pieces of urban mags have lots of education and haven't been in the workplace long.

I have to say also, this talk reminds me of the way we Boomers talked back in the early 70s. "We" were going to be so different from our parents' generation. "We" weren't going to toe the corporate line, work long hours at a desk (no cubicles back then to speak of); "we" were going to take our vacations as we saw fit, not worry about "opportunity for advancement", yada, yada. See what happened?
If I had the ability to edit my previous comment, and correct the gender mistake, I would. Typically a person who chooses "angel" as an identifier is female, but that was an unfair assumption on my part. But let's not let it distract from the topic at hand, ok?

The crux of the disagreement here is about perspective. You are seeing it from the perspective only of the employer sitting at the bargaining table. "Can we get this person or that person to work for us, and give us what we need for a salary we can afford?" In that case, yes, the younger the recruit, the less bargaining power they have.

However, I'm trying to approach it from the perspective of the employer who is thinking long term. The Millennial generation (which is not defined by having been born in the 21st century, but by having "come of age" in the 21st century - otherwise this whole topic is about little kids 14 years and under???) is way larger than Generation X. Gen-Xers, like myself, will not fully replace the Boomers, but as the Millennials come on-line, they will be the primary force in the marketplace, and their culture, and their preferences, will have a huge impact on the corporate world.

So yes, a "bargainer" will get a few bargains, in the short term. But a big-picture-planner, who pays attention to culture shifts like the one we're currently on the cusp of, is going to succeed best in the long run.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:55 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Describing the Boston area: For what it's worth the tech/engineering firms in Cambridge [walkable, dense] generally have a younger workforce than the tech/engineering firms in the SR-128 office park corridor [mostly unwalkable]. There are various historical reasons and a bit of a chicken-egg effect: firms tend to go where their workers are, workers choose to live closer where their jobs.

In reality, firm location is often more influenced by where the top management is. Companies often choose to headquarter themselves near suburbs where the executives. Finance companies that leave Manhattan often tend to go to suburbs in Connecticut, as that's where many of the executives live. A location move to Suffolk County is unlikely, discouraged more since suburban Connecticut already has a cluster of finance. Many of the tech companies in Cambridge are started younger people who already living in the area or the city; the ones in the SR-128 were founded decades ago when less highly educated young people stayed in the city (even in Cambridge) and also tend to be larger engineering firms that need space. Downtown firms often don't have most of their top management living nearby, but there are historical connections: other firms they do business with are right by, or the top management used to work in a company nearby.
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:18 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Work environment mostly certainly is for some. Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft are all pretty famous for having pretty great work environments far beyond your normal cubicle and standard office break room.
Google is well known for "choose which 16 hours a day you want to work; and choose which 1/2 day a week you want to take off". I don't really lift them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwiksell View Post
If I had the ability to edit my previous comment, and correct the gender mistake, I would. Typically a person who chooses "angel" as an identifier is female, but that was an unfair assumption on my part. But let's not let it distract from the topic at hand, ok?

The crux of the disagreement here is about perspective. You are seeing it from the perspective only of the employer sitting at the bargaining table. "Can we get this person or that person to work for us, and give us what we need for a salary we can afford?" In that case, yes, the younger the recruit, the less bargaining power they have.

However, I'm trying to approach it from the perspective of the employer who is thinking long term. The Millennial generation (which is not defined by having been born in the 21st century, but by having "come of age" in the 21st century - otherwise this whole topic is about little kids 14 years and under???) is way larger than Generation X. Gen-Xers, like myself, will not fully replace the Boomers, but as the Millennials come on-line, they will be the primary force in the marketplace, and their culture, and their preferences, will have a huge impact on the corporate world.

So yes, a "bargainer" will get a few bargains, in the short term. But a big-picture-planner, who pays attention to culture shifts like the one we're currently on the cusp of, is going to succeed best in the long run.
Actually, I'm a she. I put that in quotes b/c I thought it was rude to talk about me like I wasn't coming back to the conversation.

Here are several definitions of "Millennial":
Millennials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"There are no precise dates when the generation starts and ends. Researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s. . . .Authors William Strauss and Neil Howe wrote about the Millennials in Generations: The History of America's Future, 1584 to 2069,[2] and they released an entire book devoted to them, titled Millennials Rising: The Next Great Generation.[3] Strauss and Howe are "widely credited with naming the Millennials" according to journalist Bruce Horovitz.[1] In 1987, they coined the term "around the time 1982-born children were entering preschool and the media were first identifying their prospective link to the millennial year 2000".[4] Strauss and Howe use 1982 as the Millennials' starting birth year and 2004 as the last birth year.[5]"

Strauss and Howe are the generation people. People born in 1982 turned 18 (came of age) in 2000.

Why You Should Start Taking Millennials Seriously : NPR
"In the U.S., people born between 1980 and 2000 now outnumber baby boomers, and their numbers are still growing because of immigration."

In any event, these young people will not exert too great an influence on hiring until they have a track record of accomplishment. Someone born in 1990, about halfway through the generation no matter which year is used as the beginning of the generation, is turning 25 years old this upcoming year, may well have graduated college in the last 2-3 years. It is not unusual, in these big generations, such as the Baby Boomers before them, for there to be differences in the older members and younger. Older Boomers are reaching retirement age. (The age to collect full SS benefits for people born between 1943 and 1954 is 66, e.g. people born 1949 and earlier.)
The younger ones are still putting kids through college, and in some cases, through high school.

@nei-in Denver, which one poster referenced, if you don't want to work at the Denver Tech Center, a huge employment center, even if you're not in tech, or the Broomfield/Boulder area, you are limiting your options considerably.
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:37 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,989 posts, read 42,008,719 times
Reputation: 14810
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Google is well known for "choose which 16 hours a day you want to work; and choose which 1/2 day a week you want to take off". I don't really lift them up.
Their hours may be long but that's an extreme. A friend I have that works for Google doesn't work weekends for sure.

Quote:
@nei-in Denver, which one poster referenced, if you don't want to work at the Denver Tech Center, a huge employment center, even if you're not in tech, or the Broomfield/Boulder area, you are limiting your options considerably.
Ok, but I wasn't suggesting any tech / engineering actually in my Boston example refuse to work in the suburban job center.
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Old 01-24-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,094,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
Google is well known for "choose which 16 hours a day you want to work; and choose which 1/2 day a week you want to take off". I don't really lift them up.
No, it isn't.

Go into big box law or IB if you're looking for work hours. Google is well known for working 16 hours a day some days and not at all on other days. It's not known for having a culture of clockwatching where if you're not in by 7:00 and leave before 9:00 you're doing something wrong.
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Old 01-24-2015, 03:38 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,016 posts, read 102,649,686 times
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^^ Is it true that if you have dinner there you're expected to then stay and work a few hours more?
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
14,072 posts, read 16,094,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel View Post
^^ Is it true that if you have dinner there you're expected to then stay and work a few hours more?
Not as far as I know. I've gone in with a friend who wasn't working that day for dinner. In general you're expected to work when there's a project that's making progress or on a deadline. Google doesn't have a 9-5 mentality. That's part of it. The other part is I've gotten calls from said friend at 11 a.m. saying there's nothing going on, want to ride up to Tahoe with me today.

Especially if you're young and without kids, that kind of work-life balance works just as well and better for many people that clock out at 5 with two weeks of vacation a year does. It's not for everyone though.
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