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We cry and beg for upscale things but we are never satisfied. I love the Harbor and the crowd and monies it brings to prince georges. We need some other means of revenue.
We cry and beg for upscale things but we are never satisfied. I love the Harbor and the crowd and monies it brings to prince georges. We need some other means of revenue.
Cry for what? If businesses think money could be made selling upscale things in PG they will come on their own volition.
Evidently they don't or not enough to satisfy you and others in PG for a reason.
The problem with the National Harbor is that its in PG county plain and simple, so the developers have to tread extremely carefully with what stores they allow there. You can have nice malls with shoe stores and teenie bopper stores without attracting riff-raff, if the malls are in an upscale area. This is why malls like Montgomery mall in Bethesda, Columbia Mall in Columbia, and Annapolis mall dont really have trouble with riff-raff, because they arent built in the ghetto which is what a lot of PG county is. I think they should build some higher end retail stores like Nordstroms or something comparable and add like maybe one foot locker or a comparable athletic shoe store and maybe add something like a Boston Market or Panera bread. The thing developers need to do is make sure they keep the Harbor upscale, with a very small dash of lower end shopping. The place needs to be a place where 98% of the stores do not appeal to young black people and I say this as a young black male. The minute you start allowing 6 and 7 tennis shoe/urban apparel stores to move in, its going to be all downhill for that place. Young blacks have literally every other mall and shopping center in PG county to go to to shop for tennis shoes and t-shirts 3 sizes too large. There needs to be one place in PG that people can consistently go to and enjoy themselves without having to worry about hundreds of young blacks walking around with their pants half off, loitering, cursing and just generally acting like fools. There needs to be one place in PG county where people can go for enjoyment amongst descent, somewhat sophisticated people.
This is why malls like Montgomery mall in Bethesda, Columbia Mall in Columbia, and Annapolis mall dont really have trouble with riff-raff, because they arent built in the ghetto which is what a lot of PG county is.
I disagree with this statement for two reasons. First, those malls don't have problems with rowdy teens because they aren't easily accessible. It has NOTHING to do with them not being in a ghetto. Have you ever been to Wheaton Mall, Downtown Silver Spring, Pentagon City, or PG Plaza? Those malls aren't built ghetto areas, yet you have hundreds of black teens that visit them because they are located at metro stations. Second, there is more to PG than a few blighted areas. PG county is not mostly ghetto. Does one look at Takoma Park, Wheaton, or Silver Spring and say Montgomery is mostly ghetto? Or do they look at S.E. D.C. and say D.C. is mostly ghetto? People really need to get out and visit some of these areas they haven't seen before making statements like these.
I disagree with this statement for two reasons. First, those malls don't have problems with rowdy teens because they aren't easily accessible. It has NOTHING to do with them not being in a ghetto. Have you ever been to Wheaton Mall, Downtown Silver Spring, Pentagon City, or PG Plaza? Those malls aren't built ghetto areas, yet you have hundreds of black teens that visit them because they are located at metro stations. Second, there is more to PG than a few blighted areas. PG county is not mostly ghetto. Does one look at Takoma Park, Wheaton, or Silver Spring and say Montgomery is mostly ghetto? Or do they look at S.E. D.C. and say D.C. is mostly ghetto? People really need to get out and visit some of these areas they haven't seen before making statements like these.
I agree with you. I think for this person to say that PG is mostly ghetto is a huge exaggeration. It is true that there are some bad areas, but there are some really nice places especially outside the beltway. I think both of you make valid points too. Accessibility definitely contributes to these problems, but I also think it has a lot to do with the clientele that these shopping centers attract. I just think PG County development for a long time, has lacked any kind of real vision.
Places like The Blvd just adds stores haphazardly and didn't really think about what kind of clientele they were trying to reach. As a result they scared off a lot of their customers. Look at the new Woodmore Towne Center. One of the reasons why it has been successful so far is because the developers know their clientele. They aren't going to throw in teeny boppers stores just because, they have places like Wegmans, Costco's, JC Penneys, and Best Buy because they want to attract customers of many different demographics who are coming for shopping for important items rather than just 'hanging out'. Too many shopping centers have lacked that. Besides Bowie Town Center, there aren't really too many shopping malls in PG that are 'nice' in the sense, that you would go there just to get out and you wouldn't be flooded with tons of teenagers. And yes adelphi sky, as nice as PG Plaza is now, it still has a lot of teenagers who go there.
It appears as though the National Harbor is slowly changing to fit "our" demographic.
I routinely go down there and noticed a few months ago that Swarovski pulled out of the National Harbor. I couldn't tell you why, but obviously it had to be a profit issue as Swarovski is a pretty strong brand and does pretty well in its other stores in the area. Also, the sunglasses place next to Freschii closed down and is replaced by a high-end soap store. The sunglasses store closed a couple months before the Swarovski.
Now, another store has folded; I believe it is the furniture store that was a few doors down from Freschii. In its place...a Sports Zone Elite (sports/shoe store that caters to young adults).
Bottom line...I think the Developers of National Harbor are realizing that the demographic makeup of the surrounding area was not going to succumb to the brands that were being forced upon them and that they were losing revenue. I think they are realizing that the youth - and black youth in particular - have a very influential economic power and their brand preferences will attract other stores, and those stores will attract complimentary brands.
Overall, I am pulling for the success of National Harbor and see its potential. Now, I think, the developers are seeing the potential of the residences of PG County and are changing their position on the prohibition of "urban" stores.
It appears as though the National Harbor is slowly changing to fit "our" demographic.
I routinely go down there and noticed a few months ago that Swarovski pulled out of the National Harbor. I couldn't tell you why, but obviously it had to be a profit issue as Swarovski is a pretty strong brand and does pretty well in its other stores in the area. Also, the sunglasses place next to Freschii closed down and is replaced by a high-end soap store. The sunglasses store closed a couple months before the Swarovski.
Now, another store has folded; I believe it is the furniture store that was a few doors down from Freschii. In its place...a Sports Zone Elite (sports/shoe store that caters to young adults).
Bottom line...I think the Developers of National Harbor are realizing that the demographic makeup of the surrounding area was not going to succumb to the brands that were being forced upon them and that they were losing revenue. I think they are realizing that the youth - and black youth in particular - have a very influential economic power and their brand preferences will attract other stores, and those stores will attract complimentary brands.
Overall, I am pulling for the success of National Harbor and see its potential. Now, I think, the developers are seeing the potential of the residences of PG County and are changing their position on the prohibition of "urban" stores.
I agree that having a blend of stores to appeal to multiple demographics is necessary for long-term success but their base theme is presumably upscale so hopefully even with the introduction of urban option they stay consistent with that theme otherwise they will be no different than an Iverson or a Landmark.
I agree that having a blend of stores to appeal to multiple demographics is necessary for long-term success but their base theme is presumably upscale so hopefully even with the introduction of urban option they stay consistent with that theme otherwise they will be no different than an Iverson or a Landmark.
Can you really compare Iverson to Landmark? No. Landmark was hit badly with the recession(depression) but was great prior to that time. It isn't the mall it was but it was doing better than the mall down the road - Springfield. I liked the clientele better as well. I have lived in SOMD for 35 years and Iverson should be 100% revamped if not totally raised.
The upscale aspect at NH is laughable to me because I never saw many people who were "upscale" most of the times I went there. That place shoots itself in the foot while trying too hard. I go there with friends who want to see the place or with folks from out of town but it isn't a place I would venture to on my own volition. I know of too many other places in the DC area with better vistas, eateries, bars, and shops than NH. I can spend the money for parking on food.
If anyone wants to be cheerleader for the place, continue, but I see many people have arrived at the same opinion as I after the years the place has been there. The place could be something but it has to be more user friendly for the general populace rather than an expensive convention location before more glowing reviews come in. San Antonio, TX has a Riverwalk and caters to locals and tourists alike. If any has been there they know the feel of the places are nothing alike though they could be. In short, the place has to be visited by patrons other than the upscale populace too many think should be there. It isn't happening and in this economy, won't soon.
What is the cost to keep a boat there compared to Ft Washington marina?
Can you really compare Iverson to Landmark? No. Landmark was hit badly with the recession(depression) but was great prior to that time. It isn't the mall it was but it was doing better than the mall down the road - Springfield. I liked the clientele better as well. I have lived in SOMD for 35 years and Iverson should be 100% revamped if not totally raised.
The upscale aspect at NH is laughable to me because I never saw many people who were "upscale" most of the times I went there. That place shoots itself in the foot while trying too hard. I go there with friends who want to see the place or with folks from out of town but it isn't a place I would venture to on my own volition. I know of too many other places in the DC area with better vistas, eateries, bars, and shops than NH. I can spend the money for parking on food.
If anyone wants to be cheerleader for the place, continue, but I see many people have arrived at the same opinion as I after the years the place has been there. The place could be something but it has to be more user friendly for the general populace rather than an expensive convention location before more glowing reviews come in. San Antonio, TX has a Riverwalk and caters to locals and tourists alike. If any has been there they know the feel of the places are nothing alike though they could be. In short, the place has to be visited by patrons other than the upscale populace too many think should be there. It isn't happening and in this economy, won't soon.
What is the cost to keep a boat there compared to Ft Washington marina?
I wasn't comparing Iverson to Landmark. I was identifying two malls that have declined due to their current mix/retail offering. NH or its patrons may not be as upscale as other areas around the metro but it is definitely more upscale than what has been offered in PG that I am aware of. Its also within a competitive range with some of the other points of interests around the metro.
As discussed before, NH has only been opened for 4 years and opened during a recession so it has room to grow to meet its full potential. As a matter of fact, it was mentioned when it opened that it would be 10 to 15 years before it would be considered complete. But even then, it will appeal to some more than others.
The upscale aspect at NH is laughable to me because I never saw many people who were "upscale" most of the times I went there. That place shoots itself in the foot while trying too hard. I go there with friends who want to see the place or with folks from out of town but it isn't a place I would venture to on my own volition. I know of too many other places in the DC area with better vistas, eateries, bars, and shops than NH. I can spend the money for parking on food.
You have to understand the perception of what upscale means in the context of National Harbor. As UrbanScholar stated, the offerings at NH are above that of say, Downtown Silver Spring or Bowie Town Center. At least in entertainment and food. I think you may have a different perception of what upscale is. Chevy Chase perhaps? Bethesda? These places have been around for decades. NH has been around for 4 years. Any place to become a destination and maintain a level of vibrancy and attractiveness needs time to gel and to shake out what doesn't work and what does work. Four years is hardly a measuring stick to whether someone should write it off. Imagine if every other NEW development was held to those same standards. We'd have a metro area full of deserted urban centers.
NH was raised from dirt. Columbia Heights, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Chevy Chase all had the benefit of time to become urban places that people enjoy. In my opinion, NH has gotten off to a great start seeing as how it was finished during the great recession and maintains a sustainable level of visitors. That in and of itself is impressive. NH doesn't have a sense of place yet. Give it 15 - 20 years and it will become a mainstay in the DC area like Tysons, Crystal City, or any other urban core that people visit to shop and have a good time.
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