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This conversation is interesting abeit a little confusing. I lived in D.C (Southeast) for 7 years and visited my uncle who was one of the first blacks in PG when they started putting houses there near the farms. After my time there my family moved to Pittsburgh. What made me proud in particuliar was the fact that this was when I came back as an adult and seen a whole neighborhood that consisted mainly of upper middle class blacks. Those of you who may have grew up around this would not be too suprised, but what you seem to take for granted is that the vast majority of young blacks will never see professional blacks outside of sports and entertainment. This fact alone provides a sense of pride and confidence in those who have never seen it before for our young boys and girls to want to excel.
As for the kids who never leave their respective neighborhoods/cities/states how would they know anything regarding other races or ways of life if they are not shown? If you take a black child and raised him/her continously around whites or any other ethnic group and than placed him/her in a predominate black environment they would be emotional/mental outcast
I don't know them or their situation, so it's hard to say ... obviously the motivation to live in an area made up predominantly black professionals was a large factor for them, but the article doesn't address where she and her husband work in relation to their home. If they chose the neighborhood for the neighbors or the schools and then put up with a two hour commute and had less time at home with the kids, then I'd probably think worse of their decision.
The home size is also partially a factor of what construction is available: For a while there when a farm was cut up in the D.C. exurbs the only things being built were McMansions or townhomes, so if you wanted a single-family house, you had to go large.
I'm not judging the decision to buy a smaller home near better schools or a bigger home near black professionals as being better or not; it's a complex decision that has a lot of other factors that go into it.
I like that my neighborhood is ethnically, linguistically and economically very mixed. It's giving my kids a different experience than what I had in a more segregated southeast Louisiana or that I had in more monochromatic western Massachusetts (and I think that experience will help them in life). That all goes into the equation, along with the schools, housing stock, commute, etc.
Sticking to the story, the woman in the article never said schools were the number one consideration, just that they initially looked elsewhere because of what they'd heard about the schools. After looking at things, they found something they liked and they are willing to work to improve what they don't. That's the kind of people I want to see moving into Prince George's to help make what's good better.
That's true, I think it's important to have people who are motivated to make change. I think also that this is a disturbing trend. There are a lot of people who do the same thing that they do, but as they say good intention can prove your way to hell. As I explained with my anecdote, I have seen parents literally neglect their kids, work long hours and struggle just to make ends meet to match their lavish lifestyle. I don't know what that family's financial situation, in this story, is like but there are a lot of people in this county that have done the exact same thing that this family is doing and they have either foreclosed on their home, worked extra hours just to maintain their lifestyle which in turn caused them to not be around their kids, or both. What I'm getting at, is the essence of why you make the decisions you make. If me having a bigger home is most important, than everything else may be sacrificed. If my child education is most important then everything else may be sacrificed. The example that this family is setting may work well for them because they may have the means to maintain that life, but if people reading that story are inspired and do the same thing, then the results might not be the same. I just think that stories like this lead to bigger issues within our communities. Are these communities bad places to live in? No, but there are issues. I hear the positives of the decisions these families made to move to an place with more middle class black professionals, but the story didn't look at some of the consequences of these decisions. Again not saying, that those consequences have to be bad, but it just depends on what you desire for your family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCR25
Which I guess validates your point, Meatkins. Although I think it's overly simplistic to frame the issue as schools being the only factor or even the overriding factor. It's got to be a balance, in which schools are a very important part of the equation, but not a trump card ...
I completely agree. I never said that school should be the only reason, but it should be, in my opinion, the most important factor. Everyone is different, so I can't say that what they did was right or wrong, but I do disagree with their decision just based on what they viewed as important.
That's true, I think it's important to have people who are motivated to make change. I think also that this is a disturbing trend. There are a lot of people who do the same thing that they do, but as they say good intention can prove your way to hell. As I explained with my anecdote, I have seen parents literally neglect their kids, work long hours and struggle just to make ends meet to match their lavish lifestyle. I don't know what that family's financial situation, in this story, is like but there are a lot of people in this county that have done the exact same thing that this family is doing and they have either foreclosed on their home, worked extra hours just to maintain their lifestyle which in turn caused them to not be around their kids, or both. What I'm getting at, is the essence of why you make the decisions you make. If me having a bigger home is most important, than everything else may be sacrificed. If my child education is most important then everything else may be sacrificed. The example that this family is setting may work well for them because they may have the means to maintain that life, but if people reading that story are inspired and do the same thing, then the results might not be the same. I just think that stories like this lead to bigger issues within our communities. Are these communities bad places to live in? No, but there are issues. I hear the positives of the decisions these families made to move to an place with more middle class black professionals, but the story didn't look at some of the consequences of these decisions. Again not saying, that those consequences have to be bad, but it just depends on what you desire for your family.
We all worry about what we've seen ... I hate the idea of the extra-long commute that leaves no time for the kids or civic engagement because they wanted to be in a "good" neighborhood.
Probably we're all projecting a bit into this one family's situation, unfairly or not.
I agree that buying more house (or car or clothes or whatever) than you can afford is a problem, but is that the case here? It'd be interesting to compare a map of foreclosure rates to see if the neighborhoods in question have a better or worse foreclosure rate than other parts of the county.
The place I disagree with you is that I don't think it's a black or white issue about what is sacrificed for what. It's much more gray than that.
If I choose the smaller house in the better school district, but have such a long commute that I'm not engaged enough with the school to notice when something is wrong (I assume that since it's a good school district that I don't have to pay attention to what the school board or principal are doing), is that a better situation than if I have a shorter commute that let's me drop my kids off in the morning, say hi to the principal, and volunteer at the school even though the school district has a worse reputation? And that doesn't even get into the question of looking at the individual school vs. the school district as a whole. Which situation is me as a parent making sure my kids get the better education?
I'm not saying everyone should move to the City of Hyattsville. There're a lot of homes on the market here and more are being built, but, obviously, some people are going to like what the city has to offer and others are not. What keeps drawing me into the discussions is the idea that choosing to live in Prince George's is, ipso facto, a horrible idea for children, families or just about anyone.
We all worry about what we've seen ... I hate the idea of the extra-long commute that leaves no time for the kids or civic engagement because they wanted to be in a "good" neighborhood.
Probably we're all projecting a bit into this one family's situation, unfairly or not.
I agree that buying more house (or car or clothes or whatever) than you can afford is a problem, but is that the case here? It'd be interesting to compare a map of foreclosure rates to see if the neighborhoods in question have a better or worse foreclosure rate than other parts of the county.
The place I disagree with you is that I don't think it's a black or white issue about what is sacrificed for what. It's much more gray than that.
If I choose the smaller house in the better school district, but have such a long commute that I'm not engaged enough with the school to notice when something is wrong (I assume that since it's a good school district that I don't have to pay attention to what the school board or principal are doing), is that a better situation than if I have a shorter commute that let's me drop my kids off in the morning, say hi to the principal, and volunteer at the school even though the school district has a worse reputation? And that doesn't even get into the question of looking at the individual school vs. the school district as a whole. Which situation is me as a parent making sure my kids get the better education?
I'm not saying everyone should move to the City of Hyattsville. There're a lot of homes on the market here and more are being built, but, obviously, some people are going to like what the city has to offer and others are not. What keeps drawing me into the discussions is the idea that choosing to live in Prince George's is, ipso facto, a horrible idea for children, families or just about anyone.
I posted a thread here some months ago about PG foreclosures it made national news. It either had one of the highest rates in the country, needless to say it's the highest in the area.
In response to the bolded, I agree that would be too harsh to draw such a conclusion but when you start spouting off square footage as reasons why you choose to live in a county with poor performing schools. You open yourself up to such criticism.
Personally, as I've stated before I'm short on PG the tea leaves just don't bode well but I wouldn't begrudge anyone that makes an investment in the county.
This conversation is interesting abeit a little confusing. I lived in D.C (Southeast) for 7 years and visited my uncle who was one of the first blacks in PG when they started putting houses there near the farms. After my time there my family moved to Pittsburgh. What made me proud in particuliar was the fact that this was when I came back as an adult and seen a whole neighborhood that consisted mainly of upper middle class blacks. Those of you who may have grew up around this would not be too suprised, but what you seem to take for granted is that the vast majority of young blacks will never see professional blacks outside of sports and entertainment. This fact alone provides a sense of pride and confidence in those who have never seen it before for our young boys and girls to want to excel.
As for the kids who never leave their respective neighborhoods/cities/states how would they know anything regarding other races or ways of life if they are not shown? If you take a black child and raised him/her continously around whites or any other ethnic group and than placed him/her in a predominate black environment they would be emotional/mental outcast
That's true and perhaps the novelty has worn for me. Part of the reason is because there is nothing special to me about living with wealthy black people. Just like any group of people they have their shortcomings too. People talk about racist white or asian people, i wonder do they think all black people are loving and accepting of each other. There are buogy black people who try to show off by buying lavish things even when they may not have the means to do, or black people are jealous of you, or black people who just have bad attitudes. Every race has these people. I'm sure black people are more than likely more tolerable than living with other, but to me it's not enough for me to want to isolate myself from other races. Put it like this, there are some good white people, good asian people, good hispanic people, etc. etc. By keeping away from them you miss out on those experiences to interact with those people as well.
I think this is grossly unfair. As one of the parents noted in the article, schools can be influenced and changed, and parental involvement in the school is the best way to achieve that.
My wife and I could pay for private schooling, but after looking at the local schools, meeting teachers and administrators, and talking with friends and neighbors who have kids in the same cohort as our kids, we liked what we saw at the school and what we didn't like seems fixable.
We're active in the PTA and volunteer at the school, and as a group the PTA's been more active in lobbying the school board and county council, as well as state officials, something that will be even more important this coming budget cycle.
Private schools require the same sort of parental oversight and involvement, but many people just pay the fee and hand off their kids. To be fair, a lot of people treat public schools in the same hands-off manner. But to say you can't put your child's education first if you put them in PGCPS is way off base. You may have to work harder than if you pay for private school or are in some other DMV jurisdictions, but there are good schools and good teachers in Prince George's and there are lots of kids getting a quality education here.
Lawd this is what I've been preaching about in every thread about public schools in PG. I agree 100%
For the last family in the article, it was the reporter who characterized what the woman was saying as "working from the inside." While she did work within PGCPS, her quote was about parental involvement. I don't think she was saying that her position in the school was how she hoped to build on things; it was by engaging with the system as a parent.
That said, there have to be a lot of different considerations in picking a house; schools are important but not necessarily the final determiner. We could live in Howard County, but then I'd never make it home from work in Alexandria in time to see the kids before they went to bed. Schools, commute, neighborhood, amenities ... buying a house is a complex decision even before you start to factor in cost.
I don't think it's really possible to say one factor trumps all others or that it should ... if you think you're giving your child a better start on the future by owning a home in certain neighborhood for reasons X, Y, and Z, and are willing to work to improve factors E, F, and G that need improvement, then I don't think that's a situation to criticize. I'd be more critical of someone who is moving into a neighborhood with the expectation that it's intrinsically better and that they don't have a responsibility to be engaged with the community and its institutions.
Wow. You're on a roll. I agree that there are some people who choose good school districts and dump their kids off without getting involved assuming that because the school district is good, they don't need to get involved. A lot of people complain about things and never get involved to help change things. They don't realize that as a collective community, they can change anything. Another problem is that African Americans don't really get out and vote. Even in presidential elections the vote is anemic. People can vote to change laws and change the people that are in charge of making the laws. But that will never happen if they don't get involved.
I posted a thread here some months ago about PG foreclosures it made national news. It either had one of the highest rates in the country, needless to say it's the highest in the area.
In response to the bolded, I agree that would be too harsh to draw such a conclusion but when you start spouting off square footage as reasons why you choose to live in a county with poor performing schools. You open yourself up to such criticism.
Personally, as I've stated before I'm short on PG the tea leaves just don't bode well but I wouldn't begrudge anyone that makes an investment in the county.
I think we have to also look deeper into the foreclosure rates than look at them at face value. Just from the top of my head I can think of a few reasons why prince Georges county has a higher foreclosure rate. The first, and I would argue the main reason is that Prince Georges county is made of of mainly working class people. In other words, most work in service-level jobs. While proportionally compared to other black nieghborhoods, PG has a higher number of black professionals, there are a whole lot more service-level workers. And they were the first ones to get laid off. You have more higher earners and white-collar professionals in the other counties who were either able to hold on to their jobs, or if they got laid off, they were able to find another job rather quickly. Just look at the unemployment rates in the different counties. Kinda hard to keep a house if you don't have a job.
The second reason is predatory lending. Yes, Part of the blame is on the buyer for not understanding what is needed to purchase and maintain a home. But then you have lenders pushing no income no asset loans and big fancy houses to people who have lived in apartments all their lives. Of course you're going to have people sign on the dotted line. I would argue that this second reason is a small percentage of the foreclosures.
I chose Adelphi because it was close to UMD when I was a student and found my neighborhood to be a very quiet and diverse neighborhood. I wasn't really interested in education as a 24 year old single male. but now that I'm here, the schools in my area are not that bad. I think the only reason they get low scores is because there are a higher number of Spanish speaking children in the classrooms who have a tougher time because English is not their family's first language.
That's true and perhaps the novelty has worn for me. Part of the reason is because there is nothing special to me about living with wealthy black people. Just like any group of people they have their shortcomings too. People talk about racist white or asian people, i wonder do they think all black people are loving and accepting of each other. There are buogy black people who try to show off by buying lavish things even when they may not have the means to do, or black people are jealous of you, or black people who just have bad attitudes. Every race has these people. I'm sure black people are more than likely more tolerable than living with other, but to me it's not enough for me to want to isolate myself from other races. Put it like this, there are some good white people, good asian people, good hispanic people, etc. etc. By keeping away from them you miss out on those experiences to interact with those people as well.
I guess looking at it from the perspective of showing our youth that they don't have to be drug dealers, atheletes or entertainers in order to achieve wealth. The things that you mentioned happens amongst the broke blacks as well I can't imagine living among the bougie that would get on my nerves as well
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I can't imagine living among the bougie that would get on my nerves as well
