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I disagree that the best and brightest are the ones that go to college. I think you just offended an entire segment of population who are just as bright if not more so than people with college degrees, but chose to enter a trade. My brother is a craftsman, he dropped out of a prestigious school with a full math scholarship in the middle of his sophmore year because he hated it. He's a member of Mensa by the way. But in your eyes he must be stupid because he doesn't have a degree and works with his hands. Nice.
PS--My sister has a PhD, my brother and I both have significantly higher IQ's and some college but no degree. So her PhD and a dollar will buy her coffee at McDonald's.
I don't think you quite understand what I was saying... I was saying that, on average, TODAY, we do emphasis the college route for our best and brightest. It is literally a threat... Go to college, or else you WILL scrub toilets for a living. It is actually becoming something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Many of those grads will take jobs that shouldn't require college degrees, but they do. Employers understand the trend that began... If they wanted the smart kids, they better fish in the right pond... Require a college degree, and they will have a better shot at finding the smart kids. They aren't seeking anything the college degree offers. They are simply spotting a trend. And so, you do see statistics showing that college grads achieve higher levels of success today.
While I did attend on and off, I never graduated. Thankfully, it was my HS vocational studies that set me on the path for gainful employment and a career I enjoy. That's a whole lot cheaper for me than what college costs today. I know there are plenty of other paths to success in this county than the same 6-7 career paths college and HS counselors discuss, but I highly doubt today's youth know much about them. And this is why our student loan bubble just surpassed credit card debt... Yup, keep piling on the debt towards prosperity They better make use of those fancy expensive degrees, cause they have an awful lot of debt to pay down for this country...
I don't think you quite understand what I was saying... I was saying that, on average, TODAY, we do emphasis the college route for our best and brightest. It is literally a threat... Go to college, or else you WILL scrub toilets for a living. It is actually becoming something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Many of those grads will take jobs that shouldn't require college degrees, but they do. Employers understand the trend that began... If they wanted the smart kids, they better fish in the right pond... Require a college degree, and they will have a better shot at finding the smart kids. They aren't seeking anything the college degree offers. They are simply spotting a trend. And so, you do see statistics showing that college grads achieve higher levels of success today.
While I did attend on and off, I never graduated. Thankfully, it was my HS vocational studies that set me on the path for gainful employment and a career I enjoy. That's a whole lot cheaper for me than what college costs today. I know there are plenty of other paths to success in this county than the same 6-7 career paths college and HS counselors discuss, but I highly doubt today's youth know much about them. And this is why our student loan bubble just surpassed credit card debt... Yup, keep piling on the debt towards prosperity They better make use of those fancy expensive degrees, cause they have an awful lot of debt to pay down for this country...
Just out of curiousity, what year did you start your career?
All I'm getting at is that physically working and having to build something would teach students the difference between theory and reality. I admit that sanding wood blocks and making things out of sheetmetal may not be terribly relavent to today's job market, but at least it would give the students some experience in converting theory (drawings, ideas, etc.) to reality.
Oh, and I hear you about auto shop. In my high school, auto shop was reserved for the druggies and drop-outs. They never actually worked on any cars from what I heard... they just sat around out back and smoked all day. So, while I wanted to take that class, I know full well I would have learned nothing and would not have been welcome by the soon-to-be career criminals in the class. What a joke!
This is kind of why many trades are in bad shape in this country, or even left the country. The trades themselves have been a dumping ground for all the "undesirables" in this country. When Ford Motor does a walk through at a production shop, and sees a collection of burnouts, druggies, and illegals, it's no surprise that they would want to have their parts made somewhere else besides America
And actually, sheet metal work should still be relevant to some extent. With such a skillset, one can still work in a fabrication shop, or in the building trades. Add some welding skills to that, and you would be golden in either. Not many people today have the skillset required for shows like American Choppers. Ask those guys how this economy is treating them
Part of the problem is the economy as a whole is trashed, and there simply is not much real work to go around. Building is dead, and that put a lot of tradesman in a bad way who normally would have been doing just fine. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with building homes for a living, except the fundamentals of this nation are in bad shape. It is catching up to the educated crowd as well.
People must learn to accept... We are all citizens in this nation just the same. What effects one group will inherently catch up to the other in time.
This is kind of why many trades are in bad shape in this country, or even left the country. The trades themselves have been a dumping ground for all the "undesirables" in this country. When Ford Motor does a walk through at a production shop, and sees a collection of burnouts, druggies, and illegals, it's no surprise that they would want to have their parts made somewhere else besides America
And actually, sheet metal work should still be relevant to some extent. With such a skillset, one can still work in a fabrication shop, or in the building trades. Add some welding skills to that, and you would be golden in either. Not many people today have the skillset required for shows like American Choppers. Ask those guys how this economy is treating them
Part of the problem is the economy as a whole is trashed, and there simply is not much real work to go around. Building is dead, and that put a lot of tradesman in a bad way who normally would have been doing just fine. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with building homes for a living, except the fundamentals of this nation are in bad shape. It is catching up to the educated crowd as well.
People must learn to accept... We are all citizens in this nation just the same. What effects one group will inherently catch up to the other in time.
Indeed, you're right on the money here.
It always blew my mind how it was deemed "okay" for burn-outs, druggies, and other total failures to work the shop floor and build products... I mean, what's the use in having skilled engineers and designers if the end product is going to be messed up by a lack of quality or dedication among the people who perform the last steps in the process? Same idea with illegals building homes when they can't even read the plans... it's nuts!
I just don't get why such half-arsed behavior is tolerated and accepted... I guess it's all for a quick buck or because people in general don't care anymore, but it is really killing this nation. If we want a functional country, we're going to have to hire functional people at all levels... if that means retraining them, fine, but it would sure beat the current mess with millions out of work, companies blundering along like zombies, and morons everywhere who are seemingly immune to the consequences of their actions.
I don't think you quite understand what I was saying... I was saying that, on average, TODAY, we do emphasis the college route for our best and brightest. It is literally a threat... Go to college, or else you WILL scrub toilets for a living. It is actually becoming something of a self fulfilling prophecy. Many of those grads will take jobs that shouldn't require college degrees, but they do. Employers understand the trend that began... If they wanted the smart kids, they better fish in the right pond... Require a college degree, and they will have a better shot at finding the smart kids. They aren't seeking anything the college degree offers. They are simply spotting a trend. And so, you do see statistics showing that college grads achieve higher levels of success today.
While I did attend on and off, I never graduated. Thankfully, it was my HS vocational studies that set me on the path for gainful employment and a career I enjoy. That's a whole lot cheaper for me than what college costs today. I know there are plenty of other paths to success in this county than the same 6-7 career paths college and HS counselors discuss, but I highly doubt today's youth know much about them. And this is why our student loan bubble just surpassed credit card debt... Yup, keep piling on the debt towards prosperity They better make use of those fancy expensive degrees, cause they have an awful lot of debt to pay down for this country...
Sorry, I misunderstood and I agree with you completely.
I'm also tired of people saying if you're young and unemployed and can't find a job go mow lawns or something. Why would anyone do something like that when you will just end up getting your butt chased by the IRS for not paying taxes on the income you earn. But remember what happened to the teenager getting arrested for setting up a lemonaid stand. You are FORCED out of the job market by employers, FORCED out of society, and then if you ever attempt to "beat the system" you get chased after for not supporting "the" system.
I'm also tired of people saying if you're young and unemployed and can't find a job go mow lawns or something. Why would anyone do something like that when you will just end up getting your butt chased by the IRS for not paying taxes on the income you earn. But remember what happened to the teenager getting arrested for setting up a lemonaid stand. You are FORCED out of the job market by employers, FORCED out of society, and then if you ever attempt to "beat the system" you get chased after for not supporting "the" system.
Sounds like slavery. A slave system? You bet!
No teenager ever got arrested by the IRS for setting up a lemonade stand. The IRS has systems in place for self-employed individuals to report and pay taxes on their earnings. If the worker chooses to not report and gets audited and fined, that's a problem of their own making. When you are self-employed you need to be disciplined and set aside a percentage of your income--which will vary from none to 35% depending on a variety of circumstances--in order to pay your taxes. It's not rocket science and the IRS has all of the forms you need on their web site.
It's possible that the teenager didn't have the proper permits (business license, health department permit, state department of taxation permit) and was shut down by the local authorities, but it wasn't the IRS that "arrested" them.
Just out of curiousity, what year did you start your career?
I took trade classes during high school around 2003, and started my apprenticeship around 2005. Only made it a couple years before the auto industry took a dump.
It always blew my mind how it was deemed "okay" for burn-outs, druggies, and other total failures to work the shop floor and build products... I mean, what's the use in having skilled engineers and designers if the end product is going to be messed up by a lack of quality or dedication among the people who perform the last steps in the process? Same idea with illegals building homes when they can't even read the plans... it's nuts!
I just don't get why such half-arsed behavior is tolerated and accepted... I guess it's all for a quick buck or because people in general don't care anymore, but it is really killing this nation. If we want a functional country, we're going to have to hire functional people at all levels... if that means retraining them, fine, but it would sure beat the current mess with millions out of work, companies blundering along like zombies, and morons everywhere who are seemingly immune to the consequences of their actions.
It's the same ol story. You get what you pay for. Americans for years wanted low taxes for the middle class, and they were not willing to pay each other livable wages. Well, you get what you pay for. The roads are in terrible shape, the school system sucks, the bridges are crumbling, the houses built in the past 10-15 years are pieces of crap that shouldn't even pass inspection... We are willing to pay CEOs 10X as much as everywhere else for delivering 10X less, unless you are a shareholder. Today we have a very hollow country, driven by a very hollow economy, occupied by very hollow people. It's no wonder we are the most medicated, obese and materialistic society the world has ever seen. It's also no wonder forefingers come here and kick our butts doing the jobs we deem below us, while we collect unemployment checks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silenthelpreturns
I'm also tired of people saying if you're young and unemployed and can't find a job go mow lawns or something. Why would anyone do something like that when you will just end up getting your butt chased by the IRS for not paying taxes on the income you earn. But remember what happened to the teenager getting arrested for setting up a lemonaid stand. You are FORCED out of the job market by employers, FORCED out of society, and then if you ever attempt to "beat the system" you get chased after for not supporting "the" system.
Sounds like slavery. A slave system? You bet!
Employment is slavery. It always was and always will be. Welcome to the real world. And once again, nobody was blaming the unemployed. As I mentioned, HS students graduating today are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The economy is complete trashed and hollowed for many. Once again, welcome to the real world. You get what you pay for. I'm glad my employer doesn't hold self employment in such a low regard. I wouldn't have a livable wage if it weren't for his drive to run a successful company and yes, he happens to get rich in the process. Don't like it? COMPETE.
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