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Yes, but you seem to think that big business depends on a strong U.S.A.. We are a consuming superpower. I do believe putting an end to our middle class will hurt for awhile. But businesses don't simply cease to exist because American's are struggling. They shift their operations to new markets if possible..
Well said. For over a decade, the D3 survived because growing markets like Asia for GM, provided sufficient operating profits to withstand US losses. So it is IGNORANT to groan over corps being global. Very often, being global is the difference between the corp shutting US operations versus restructuring them.
[quote=Rambler123;25127917. And, quite frankly, I think most of those big companies could hire more people.[/quote]
As what, an act of charity? News flash: Businesses properly do what they should do in order to maximize their odds of operating effectively. Hiring is not done, nor should it be done, to improve society at large.
Maybe among the people you know. The media claims they use government figures, but basing employment on unemployment claims just doesn't work. So many are underemployed.
Educate yourself: I referenced the U6 number, which includes self-reported underemployed, as well as officially unemployed.
I heard the workforce participation rate is down to 58.8%. I am young I feel it will drop to 50% at some point in my lifetime. What happens when 50% of the population is not working? We are heading to a time when we will need less labor not more. The population will keep growing jobs will not. I also feel the real unemployment rate is 20% I will not go into have they cook the books with the unemployment numbers. So business may not own us a thing living wage a job nothing. But here is the thing you can fail to acknowledge the problems in the job market. Hey you can bury your head in the sand about the economy. All the underlying issues that have not been fixed for 30 years. All bubbles the trillions the fed has pumped into the economy. But when social unrest comes at some point it will affect business. And it will affect everyone one else as a nation.
Yeah.....I mean running a business is not only about 1'upping everything. In the end it's consumers who keep your doors open. Tell that to joe schmoe and his former restaurant in john doe city (that has 12% unemployment).
So, you are saying we should just accept the destruction of the middle class - reducing tens of millions to poverty in this nation alone - just to let big business prosper? Why should we sacrifice the lives and well-being of so many people just to avoid holding business accountable?
I'm sick of listening to people claim business has no role other than profit. Considering that big business controls our society completely - all the working class has to offer is their labor to business - than, yes, business has an obligation to employ people and pay them a living wage. It would be different if we could all live on the family farm or if there was no such thing as "big business" that controlled our nation, but that is not the case. I find it amazing how extremists are so willing to heap blame upon the working class who have had their jobs taken from them, but the moment somebody becomes a corporate big-shot, they are suddenly above reproach and accountable to no one so long as they show a profit. This selfish belief system is not unlike what drives drug cartels or the slave trade in the South before the Civil War - who cares what the guys in charge do, so long as they rake in the big bucks. What a joke.
And you're going to pin the blame entirely on the business community, whose primary goal is, and should be, to make money... Sorry, I just don't buy it. They are under enormous stress these days. Even the larger companies have anxieties. No one knows what's around the corner. I don't blame them for hording cash and holding off on spending. That is exactly what I have been doing for the past 5 years. Yes, no new car when job security is non existent. Maybe try drinking more water instead of expensive milk all the time. You get the picture. In a way, you could blame me for the struggling economy, because I am not doing as much as I could to bring this economy back.
Sorry, I blame the bloated government sector the most. How can I have any confidence in the economy with those dingbats running the show? It's like a circus. If I was a multinational corporation, I would be planning my escape too.
You speak as if we should have a prosperous middle class by virtue of being America. It does not work that way. You have to earn it. Our government has squandered every last iota of what made this country great. And you blame businesses for shifting work out of the country. Who encouraged them to do it?! Who let foreign countries slam tarriffs on our goods, while we became the designated losers of free trade??? Do you stop and ask WHY businesses have behaved the way they have??? Because it's profitable! Not only that, if you try to utalize a strategy that isn't profitable (like keeping 100% production in the expensive U.S.) there is NO way you can effectively compete. YOU WILL GO BANKRUPT.
I'm sorry, I would love to see more of that work being done in the U.S.. Previous generations have done decent thanks to a lot of the jobs that ultimately left the country. We have had some very ignorant, arrogant, and self centered people running the country though. And lets not forget... It is the consumer that ultimately decides what is profitable, and what is not. Ultimately, they made the decision. The main motivation for the past few decades has been to acquire the most "stuff". To do that, they demanded the cheapest "stuff" available. Well, if that is the attitude, the middle class will have to accept that jobs involved in the production of these goods will also be on the "cheap" side. Eventually, your society will have to run on the "cheap" side. In a free market, consumption is dependent on one's ability to produce, and the value/quantity of what is produced. We seem to be demonstrating that very clearly in this country, now that the bubbles have burst and financial buffers have been revealing themselves.
And what do you define as middle class? It it a single earners potential income, or is it a family? How do you factor in capital gains? I consider myself middle class. I live on the cheap side, but I'm happy none the less. Even when I had a bad year and only made around 33K at my job, I still considered myself middle class. Of course, wages/salaries are not static. It is not unheard of for people making 6 figures to find themselves without a job. Do they loose that middle class status because of this? If they have been saving/investing, I would think not. Personally, if and when the corporate earnings go down the toilet, I would be at far more of a risk of loosing my "middle class" status.
And you're going to pin the blame entirely on the business community, whose primary goal is, and should be, to make money... Sorry, I just don't buy it. They are under enormous stress these days. Even the larger companies have anxieties. No one knows what's around the corner. I don't blame them for hording cash and holding off on spending. That is exactly what I have been doing for the past 5 years. Yes, no new car when job security is non existent. Maybe try drinking more water instead of expensive milk all the time. You get the picture. In a way, you could blame me for the struggling economy, because I am not doing as much as I could to bring this economy back.
Sorry, I blame the bloated government sector the most. How can I have any confidence in the economy with those dingbats running the show? It's like a circus. If I was a multinational corporation, I would be planning my escape too.
Andywire, You have written some fine posts, but this might just be your best yet.
And you're going to pin the blame entirely on the business community, whose primary goal is, and should be, to make money... Sorry, I just don't buy it. They are under enormous stress these days. Even the larger companies have anxieties. No one knows what's around the corner. I don't blame them for hording cash and holding off on spending. That is exactly what I have been doing for the past 5 years. Yes, no new car when job security is non existent. Maybe try drinking more water instead of expensive milk all the time. You get the picture. In a way, you could blame me for the struggling economy, because I am not doing as much as I could to bring this economy back.
Don't make me laugh. Business is under "enormous pressure?" Yeah, with record profits and record cash on hand and complete control of our government... Yeah, that's some "enormous pressure" right there!
Also, if you bothered to *read* my posts you'd realize I blame the government AND big business because THEY ARE THE SAME!
Good heavens, who do you think writes the bills that become law in this nation?
1) We the people of the United States.... you lose points if you pick this one.
2) A cabal of "left-wingers who hate big business and America."
3) The very businesses who buy up all our politicians, pay for their campaigns, and who pay lobbyists to create the bills that are than passed into law... sometimes without even being read by our idiot politicians.
If you picked any other choice than 3, I have no idea where you've been living for the past few decades, but it sure as heck isn't America. So, yeah, I'm angry at business in part because business IS the government in this nation, and I am shocked that some people are still blind to that.
As for the rest of your post, I have no idea where you got the notion that I think America deserves a huge middle class by virtue of "being America," but *do* believe that people who work hard and obtain useful skills and education *do* deserve a decent job, and that the welfare of the people of this nation is more important than inflating a corporation's stock price by a few pennies per share. Sorry if that doesn't agree with the right-wing vision of a nation ruled completely by businesses who are accountable to no one.... because it's all the fault of the politicians they bought...
Don't make me laugh. Business is under "enormous pressure?" Yeah, with record profits and record cash on hand and complete control of our government... Yeah, that's some "enormous pressure" right there!
!
Good heavens, who do you think writes the bills that become law in this nation?
2) A cabal of "left-wingers who hate big business and America."
Business US is under pressure, read the FULL earnings report. In many cases, US operating profits are sub par for the corp. In many cases, ABC Corp Asia is keeping ABC Corp USA on a life support machine..for now. (It does take more effort though to read the FULL quarterly report!!)
A cabal who also bought out Insurance plus Big Pharma passed OBooBoocare. US Chamber of Commerce, as well as many big US corps railed against it, but your option 3 was IGNORED. Many unions, like the SEIU, were quickly EXEMPTED from it, after lobbying for it.
Don't make me laugh. Business is under "enormous pressure?" Yeah, with record profits and record cash on hand and complete control of our government... Yeah, that's some "enormous pressure" right there!
Also, if you bothered to *read* my posts you'd realize I blame the government AND big business because THEY ARE THE SAME!
Good heavens, who do you think writes the bills that become law in this nation?
1) We the people of the United States.... you lose points if you pick this one.
2) A cabal of "left-wingers who hate big business and America."
3) The very businesses who buy up all our politicians, pay for their campaigns, and who pay lobbyists to create the bills that are than passed into law... sometimes without even being read by our idiot politicians.
If you picked any other choice than 3, I have no idea where you've been living for the past few decades, but it sure as heck isn't America. So, yeah, I'm angry at business in part because business IS the government in this nation, and I am shocked that some people are still blind to that.
As for the rest of your post, I have no idea where you got the notion that I think America deserves a huge middle class by virtue of "being America," but *do* believe that people who work hard and obtain useful skills and education *do* deserve a decent job, and that the welfare of the people of this nation is more important than inflating a corporation's stock price by a few pennies per share. Sorry if that doesn't agree with the right-wing vision of a nation ruled completely by businesses who are accountable to no one.... because it's all the fault of the politicians they bought...
You can tell who is making the money right now.
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Like Boeing who was TOLD they could NOT invest $1 billion in the state of their choice. 
