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It is the standard way of the OECD, IMF and the CIA to adjust for PPP so if you think there way is laughable, then send them an email.
Its laughable the way you use it. The PPP is not the purchasing power or living standards for a minimum wage worker! PPP is used to calculate GDP adjusted for price level of production between different countries which is totally different.
For minimum wage earners and people earning close to minimum wage in America, child care, health care, higher education, sick leave, family and medical leave, paid vacations, no public transit etc eats up a huge proportion of income unlike in countries where people on lower income can live a more humane existence.
I do seriously believe that alot of the resistence to minimum wage has to do with people fearful that they can no longer look down upon someone that might be worse off than themselves.
You cannot seriously compare southern Europe with Mexico. Spain and Italy has a GDP per capita of 35k, while western Europe has a GDP per capita of 40 - 50k. That is not a very big difference. United States has a GDP per capita of 56k, while Mexico has a GDP per capita of 18k. That is a huge difference, which get even larger if you look at nominal values.
Southern Europe is not like Mexico, they do not have a $0.5 minimum wage. And their informal sector and corruption is a lot lower. Southern Europe is part of Europe, and they like social democracy too. They are just not equally successful.
US also got states that are slightly poorer, if you include those states, then you should also include southern Europe. But lets be honest here, if we talked to you 10 years ago, you definitely would have included them. The reason you no longer want to include them, is because they implemented your preferred political system, but the outcome was not the same as expected.
More nonsense from you. These are SEPERATE COUNTRIES and have always been deeply corrupt. Its not something they "implemented". Compare countries with countries. Dont just add countries to some continent and claim that the whole continent "doesnt work".
Its laughable the way you use it. The PPP is not the purchasing power or living standards for a minimum wage worker! PPP is used to calculate GDP adjusted for price level of production
between different countries which is totally different.
So how come OECD is using PPP to compare wages. Ready to send them an email about how wrong they are?
The only thing thing laughable is that you don't even get why PPP is used. Norway has seen its currency drop 40% over the last 2 years, does that mean Norway has seen its living standard and minimum wage drop by 40%. Of course not.
There is only one reason you do not want to adjust for cost of living, it does not conform to your ideology.
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Originally Posted by PCALMike
More nonsense from you. These are SEPERATE COUNTRIES and have always been deeply corrupt. Its not something they "implemented". Compare countries with countries. Dont just add countries to some continent and claim that the whole continent "doesnt work".
If what I wrote was nonsense, you would have provided some arguments instead of just making your bogus statement over again. Sorry, but you cannot compare Mexico and the Spain. Below you can see why.
You cannot seriously compare southern Europe with Mexico. Spain and Italy has a GDP per capita of 35k, while western Europe has a GDP per capita of 40 - 50k. That is not a very big difference. United States has a GDP per capita of 56k, while Mexico has a GDP per capita of 18k. That is a huge difference, which get even larger if you look at nominal values.
Southern Europe is not like Mexico, they do not have a $0.5 minimum wage. And their informal sector and corruption is a lot lower. Southern Europe is part of Europe, and they like social democracy too. They are just not equally successful.
US also got states that are slightly poorer, if you include those states, then you should also include southern Europe. But lets be honest here, if we talked to you 10 years ago, you definitely would have included them. The reason you no longer want to include them, is because they implemented your preferred political system, but the outcome was not the same as expected.
So how come OECD is using PPP to compare wages. Ready to send them an email about how wrong they are?
OECD is NOT comparing minimum wage earners using PPP. And certainly not living standards. Thats just a pure lie. Minimum wage earners have a totally different basket of consumption than someone making $100 000. Thats just basic common sense. Furthermore, to not take into account universal public services provided in other countries which a minimum wage earner has to pay out of pocket for in another country is grossly deceptive. You should know this, most sane people know this, but then we have the gullible who are easily tricked of course.
Fact of the matter is that minimum wage earners in America are far far worse off than countries like Denmark, Australia and Switzerland. And please dont bring up corrupt countries like Greece and Italy to make some type of silly point. Compare countries with countries, not continents with countries.
For minimum wage earners and people earning close to minimum wage in America, child care, health care, higher education, sick leave, family and medical leave, paid vacations, no public transit etc eats up a huge proportion of income unlike in countries where people on lower income can live a more humane existence.
Just because you keep repeating a lie, doesn't make it true. You are correct it is not easy to be poor in America. But you are definitely not correct that it is much easier in Europe. I think the people living on the street would disagree with you there.
The thing you don't get is that progressive media don't tell you the complete truth. They say all mothers get 1 year maternity leave in Europe. They don't tell you that it is only in some European countries, and only for working mothers. They say all healthcare is free, except not completely, some procedures are not available and the waiting lines can be for years. It is not very niceto live with a broken hip for 2 years.
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I do seriously believe that alot of the resistence to minimum wage has to do with people fearful that they can no longer look down upon someone that might be worse off than themselves.
Yeah right.
To be honest I don't mind that cities like Los Angeles increase their minimum wage. It will show in a few years to the rest of the country what failure far left policies are.
Just because you keep repeating a lie, doesn't make it true. You are correct it is not easy to be poor in America. But you are definitely not correct that it is much easier in Europe. I think the people living on the street would disagree with you there.
You keep perpetuating this lie that every service and benefit Switzerland, Denmark and Australia provide to every resident is worthless. The lie doesnt become true just because you lie about it all the time.
If you have no money and cant pay your rent anymore, you will NOT become homeless in countries like Switzerland, Denmark and Australia. Social services will pay your rent until you find another job. Of course, if you live in some luxurious apartment, you will be asked to find a cheaper place when available. The people living on the streets in these countries are drug addicts who cant function in society. Totally different than the constant threat of homelessness if you lose your job or get sick as seen in America. There is no sick leave for minimum wage workers in America, overtime wage theft is rampant and women have no paid time off to bond with a newborn child. Paid vacation is a pipe dream for half of all workers in America, while in most other developed countries, at least 4 weeks paid vacation is minimum for all workers.
Regarding child care, the cost of child care in America is through the roof. In other developed countries, children are seen as an investment and women are encouraged to combine WORK and FAMILY. This is of course only possible if child care is heavily subsidized and readily available. Totally different than America with basically no support or really crappy support for working families.
OECD is NOT comparing minimum wage earners using PPP. And certainly not living standards. Thats just a pure lie. Minimum wage earners have a totally different basket of consumption than someone making $100 000. Thats just basic common sense. Furthermore, to not take into account universal public services provided in other countries which a minimum wage earner has to pay out of pocket for in another country is grossly deceptive. You should know this, most sane people know this, but then we have the gullible who are easily tricked of course.
It is funny how you have to make up strawmen to argue against me, I said wages not minimum wages. Of course it is slightly different, but that is not a good argument for not adjusting at all.
And in fact if we really did a minimum wage PPP, it would probably help the US, because it is easier in the US to find cheap stuff.
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Fact of the matter is that minimum wage earners in America are far far worse off than countries like Denmark, Australia and Switzerland. And please dont bring up corrupt countries like Greece and Italy to make some type of silly point. Compare countries with countries, not continents with countries
I prefer to compare them to all countries, and not a few handpicked ones. And you still haven't proven your bogus statement that minimum wage workers are far worse in the US. It is only based on your belief that Europe is some kind of welfare nirvana. As I told you before, it is not true because the welfare you have heard about is not as good as you think, you struggle on minimum wage in both continents, that is reality.
Why is it so important for you that other countries are much better for poor people than the US. You got some ideology to defend?
It is funny how you have to make up strawmen to argue against me, I said wages not minimum wages. Of course it is slightly different, but that is not a good argument for not adjusting at all.
And in fact if we really did a minimum wage PPP, it would probably help the US, because it is easier in the US to find cheap stuff.
yeah right, the total lack of public transit alone is enough to crush most minimum wage earners in America compared to developed countries in Europe. But that is of course not something any silly PPP number can reflect at all. Same with a near total lack of support for child care. Child care is not "cheap stuff" in America. The lack of public transit is not "cheap stuff". Prescription drugs and health care is not "cheap stuff". Higher education is extortionate. All of this stuff eats up a huge proportion of income for most lower income people in America unlike in places like Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands etc.
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Originally Posted by Camlon
I prefer to compare them to all countries, and not a few handpicked ones. And you still haven't proven your bogus statement that minimum wage workers are far worse in the US. It is only based on your belief that Europe is some kind of welfare nirvana. As I told you before, it is not true because the welfare you have heard about is not as good as you think, you struggle on minimum wage in both continents, that is reality.
Why is it so important for you that other countries are much better for poor people than the US. You got some ideology to defend?
Its important to point out lies from right wingers who always warn of doom and gloom if the government actually started to serve the people and invested in the quality of life of the people and not simply served the big money donor class and the special interests.
You keep perpetuating this lie that every service and benefit Switzerland, Denmark and Australia provide to every resident is worthless. The lie doesnt become true just because you lie about it all the time.
If you have no money and cant pay your rent anymore, you will NOT become homeless in countries like Switzerland, Denmark and Australia. Social services will pay your rent until you find another job. Of course, if you live in some luxurious apartment, you will be asked to find a cheaper place when available. The people living on the streets in these countries are drug addicts who cant function in society. Totally different than the constant threat of homelessness if you lose your job or get sick as seen in America.
I don't think developed countries consist of three countries. And even among your hand picked choices, Australia only give 4 months of parental leave, not a year. I bet your progressive sources didn't tell you that.
The fact that you have to handpick countries show how bogus your arguments are. And even in those countries, the people living on the streets are not just drug addicts. You need to be a resident to get these benefits.
If we look at all developed countries, you will not have a much better life on minimum wage outside the US. Minimum wages adjusted for cost of living is about the same, and those super awesome welfare benefits only exist in a few countries. That is the reality that you refuse to accept.
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Regarding child care, the cost of child care in America is through the roof. In other developed countries, children are seen as an investment and women are encouraged to combine WORK and FAMILY. This is of course only possible of child care is heavily subsidized and readily available. Totally different than America with basically no support or really crappy support for working families.
How exactly? Cheap day care cost $100 - $150 per week in most states, school is free, cost of food is low relative to the rest of the world. Your response will be, but that day care is not good enough. That is just you who want middle class lifestyle on a minimum wage.
yeah right, the total lack of public transit alone is enough to crush most minimum wage earners in America compared to developed countries in Europe. But that is of course not something any silly PPP number can reflect at all. Same with a near total lack of support for child care. Child care is not "cheap stuff" in America. The lack of public transit is not "cheap stuff". Prescription drugs and health care is not "cheap stuff". Higher education is extortionate. It eats up a huge proportion of income for most lower income people in America unlike in places like Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands etc.
Most US cities have buses, and even better they tend to be quite cheap relative to Europe. For instance a monthly ticket in Copenhagen, Denmark cost about $150 if you want enough zones. Does that sound affordable to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike
Its important to point out lies from right wingers who always warn of doom and gloom if the government actually started to serve the people and invested in the quality of life of the people and not simply served the big money donor class and the special interests.
Except you are the one lying, claiming that Europe is some kind of benefit nirvana, when in reality those benefits you have heard about, is not as great as you think. It is hard to live on minimum wage both places.
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