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I don't agree, because the technology is already there. I have seen plenty of working machines in fast food restaurants. But if customer service is decent, then people prefer dealing with a human.
People are only willing to spend a certain amount for customer service. If two pizza chains provide the same pizza, cost 8 and 12 dollars, but the 12 dollar has far superior customer service, then a lot of people will pick the 12 dollar one. However, if the price difference is 10 and 20 dollars, then a lot more people will pick the cheap option.
This means, if minimum wage increase by a lot, then we will see a lot more self-service kiosk.
Companies don't make decisions based on what consumers want, they make decisions based on bottom line profits. This IS the way of the future and it will be every store, not just a few.
If people actually cared more about customer service than low prices, they wouldn't have let their hometown local hardware stores go out of business in favor of Home Depots and Lowes.
huh? Minimum wage in New Mexico is $7.50 an hour. "If" you worked full time (and most minimum wage jobs are NOT full time, your take home pay would be $240 a week, that is $960 a month, not $1170. A 'gold pass' for the bus is $30 a month, not $20.
Rent: $400 shared room
Groceries $250
Bus ticket $30
left over is $280
And that $280 would have to cover: clothing, phone, medical & dental expenses, etc. To put that in perspective if you had to have one tooth crowned it would consume all of the "left over" money for 3 or 4 months.
Those kind of scenarios are never based in reality.
I think someone need to take a basic math class. 7.5*40 is $300. Removing federal tax and social security this amount drop to $267, not $240. Also, there are 4.333 weeks in a month, not 4. $267*4.333 = 1160. You don't need to know maths to get this, you just need the basic common sense to use a tax calculator. US Hourly Wage Tax Calculator 2016 | The Tax Calculator
And you are wrong about the bus ticket too, because you can buy a 6 month or a 12 month ticket, and the price per month will be about $20.
You show the problem with the $15 movement, you can't even calculate your own salary, but you think that you understand the economic impact of raising minimum wages. One of the things you need to understand is that if people have low wages because they don't get enough hours, then the solution is not to increase minimum wage, that will just make it worse. The solution is to make it easier for small business, so that they can hire minimum wage workers.
First get full employment, then you can start thinking about minimum wage.
And if the problem is that minimum wage workers can't get enough hours, then you definitely should not increase the minimum wage. That will just make the problem worse.
The best time to increase the minimum wage, is when companies force workers to work more hours than they want, and companies profit margin is high. In that situation, a minimum wage increase will lead to higher wages and fewer hours. Which is a win, win situation.
I'm speaking from experience back when the minimum wage was $5.25. I'm not sure what's happening now since I haven't worked a crap job in about 10 years. Apparently $5.25 an hour was not a low enough minimum wage for any of my previous service employers to give me FT hours.
There was a bubble in 2006-07, when congress raised the MW to $7.25, I accrued more hours because it was a bubble and people were buying stuff at stores.
How low, precisely, would you like minimum wages to be? Perhaps we should reduce them to $5 a day in order to compete with Mexico? Or $2 a day to compete with Guatemala?
I think someone need to take a basic math class. 7.5*40 is $300. Removing federal tax and social security this amount drop to $267, not $240. Also, there are 4.333 weeks in a month, not 4. $267*4.333 = 1160. You don't need to know maths to get this, you just need the basic common sense to use a tax calculator. US Hourly Wage Tax Calculator 2016 | The Tax Calculator
And you are wrong about the bus ticket too, because you can buy a 6 month or a 12 month ticket, and the price per month will be about $20.
You show the problem with the $15 movement, you can't even calculate your own salary, but you think that you understand the economic impact of raising minimum wages. One of the things you need to understand is that if people have low wages because they don't get enough hours, then the solution is not to increase minimum wage, that will just make it worse. The solution is to make it easier for small business, so that they can hire minimum wage workers.
First get full employment, then you can start thinking about minimum wage.
There is no consensus about the effects of minimum wage on employment. It will cost people some jobs, but then it creates jobs because the minimum wage puts more dollars in the pockets of people who will spend every penny back into the economy.
At 4.9%, we are currently almost at full employment. About as close as we're going to get without some kind of New Deal type initiative.
It doesn't take a genius to see where the labor market is going. It's been clear for years. The future is going to be 20-30% tech and service jobs (including businesses and gigs that actually pay), many will require specific education. Those will be the decent jobs. There will still be some manufacturing, maybe 15% of jobs... those will be mostly advanced & require education.
The rest of the ~55% of jobs out there will be service jobs that are not what we would define as career-type jobs. They will be subsistence jobs.
We should prioritize making life for those service workers better, because we are NOT going to put the technology genie back in its bottle without some kind of apocalyptic collapse.
Companies don't make decisions based on what consumers want, they make decisions based on bottom line profits. This IS the way of the future and it will be every store, not just a few.
If people actually cared more about customer service than low prices, they wouldn't have let their hometown local hardware stores go out of business in favor of Home Depots and Lowes.
Now you are assuming everyone is like you. I have no interest to go to a local hardware store, it is more expensive, and the quality is the same. A lot of people think like me, hence Walmart win.
However, if I can pick between a cozy restaurant where I can sit down and have pizza with my family, or a fast food place with dirty floor and rude employees, then I definitely will pick the first one every time unless it is very expensive.
High minimum wage will make that place much more expensive relative to the cheap one.
I believe it but with kiosks you will not earn a penny. Don't pretend the $15/hr isn't responsible in some way for the disappearance of jobs.
The US has shipped out thousands of good paying jobs overseas and replaced them with low-paying service sector jobs the last 10 years. For Example, Ford is moving all small car production to Mexico and if Trump doesn't persuade them otherwise, they will move production there eventually. Why should an American icon like Ford have to move outside the US?
Here we go! Classic! Now, the increased minimum wage is responsible for these kiosks. That argument would work except that they were introducing kiosks at grocery stores and department stores nearly a decade ago when minimum wage was less. The only reason it wasn't introduced at McDonalds and fast food is the technology wasn't yet available otherwise they would have introduced these back then as well.
People are incredibly naive. Companies don't care about minimum wage laws. Whether it is $5 hr or $15 hr, if they can save even a $1 they would if it is possible.
The problem is our culture endorses this type of behavior. Business ethics do not exist. We say it is okay to do anything to save on costs so long as it is legal. The excuse is always the same: companies have an obligation to share holders which is code for "It's okay to be greedy" What about obligation to employees and families. Companies make plenty of profit even when paying higher minimum wage. But we encourage companies to maximize profits at all cost.
The other day in my office, one of our lowly paid employees ($13 per hour) argued with me. I told her that I voted to increase minimum wage in our state. She said "But won't that affect companies and prevent them from hiring" She is a Republican and an Evangelical who has been taught that increasing minimum wage is bad so she touts the company line. This person has no education and will be reliant upon low wages the rest of her life. This is someone who would benefit from an increased minimum wage. It shows how the people who are most affected by minimum wage laws are brainwashed into thinking what is best for me the owner of the company. It just amazed me. It amazes how Republicans and conservatives have brainwashed the working class into thinking that increased wages will harm them.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 12-01-2016 at 12:19 PM..
I'm speaking from experience back when the minimum wage was $5.25. I'm not sure what's happening now since I haven't worked a crap job in about 10 years. Apparently $5.25 an hour was not a low enough minimum wage for any of my previous service employers to give me FT hours.
There was a bubble in 2006-07, when congress raised the MW to $7.25, I accrued more hours because it was a bubble and people were buying stuff at stores.
How low, precisely, would you like minimum wages to be? Perhaps we should reduce them to $5 a day in order to compete with Mexico? Or $2 a day to compete with Guatemala?
I am not against the minimum wage. What I think we should do is
1. Start adjusting the federal minimum wage after inflation. No big increase, because some states need low minimum wage, and I don't want to throw them under the bus.
2. Replace the moronic $15 movement with a more sensible $12 movement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57
There is no consensus about the effects of minimum wage on employment. It will cost people some jobs, but then it creates jobs because the minimum wage puts more dollars in the pockets of people who will spend every penny back into the economy.
This has never happened. Countries who have tried to increase minimum wage by a lot, experience high inflation, because minimum wage increases force other sectors to increase their wages. If it is done on the local level, then it has the opposite effect, because money will flow to cheaper areas.
Quote:
At 4.9%, we are currently almost at full employment. About as close as we're going to get without some kind of New Deal type initiative.
It doesn't take a genius to see where the labor market is going. It's been clear for years. The future is going to be 20-30% tech and service jobs that are decent, and 70% service jobs that are not. We should prioritize making life for those service workers better, because we are NOT going to put the technology genie back in its bottle without some kind of apocalyptic collapse.
Agree, I also don't believe it is very difficult to get 40 hours of minimum wage. In fact, it is pretty easy to get 60 hours if you want. Hence, it is totally fine to increase the minimum wage today.
But keep the increases to a sane level. If the median wage of a state is $15, then you cannot increase the minimum wage to $15. That is why I say the $15 movement, should be replaced by a $12 movement.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,225,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks
You must not have read my post. I said, "I have not seen anyone use them, but I'm sure some patrons do." I still don't understand why one would go to a full service restaurant just to use a computer. Are people so intolerant of the occasional mistake or human interaction that they prefer to use an enlarged smartphone at a full service restaurant? Why further automate our very automated society? I love my laptop and smartphone, but I don't want to use machines as a replacement for social interactions. Everyone makes their own choices, but when I'm out and about, I like talking and dealing with people. If they make an error, so what? Everyone makes mistakes. We deal with it and move on.
You may be an outlier, and it will only get worse, now that 4 year-olds are using i-pads and smartphones to play games. The typical high school and college student does everything on their mobile devices, and happily embrace any new technology, including restaurant tablets. In fact, some of the reason for installing them may be that, not reducing staff. Appeal to the more wired custiomers. The car used to be the key to social interaction among teens, now it's constant texting, and they are not in a hurry to get a license at 16 any more. The actual face-to-face interaction is limited to family and friends and even then is much less. The don't want or need to interact with strangers at stores and restaurants. We are older, but we still have used them at the two restaurants with them, if only to check it out. Our normal "date night" haunts do not have them, and we do enjoy the attentive service by wait staff at the higher priced establishments.
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