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Old 04-21-2019, 05:44 AM
 
1,550 posts, read 401,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeisabeach21 View Post
Now Iím debating whether or not to resign and give 2 weeks notice or not in order to put my job search on overdrive. I havenít signed anything yet regarding the PIP. Iím assuming they will give me something on Monday. I know if I resign, then Iím not qualified for unemployment. However, NCís unemployment benefit pay is low and I have some money saved up to cover expenses for 3 months.
Don't resign unless you have another job to go to. I know this isn't fun, but stay there until you find another job or they terminate you. If they terminate you, then you can more easily get unemployment benefits and hopefully a severance package. Don't complicate things by quitting.

If you quit or get fired, being unemployed you still have to come up with a story why you left your last job and don't have one now for other employers. So it is better to stay there as long as you can even if it ends in being fired.

You have the evenings and weekends to do a job search to apply. Employers interested will contact you by e-mail or phone leaving a voicemail. You don't need to be unemployed to be available to do your job search.
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Old 04-21-2019, 06:42 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,287 posts, read 4,865,859 times
Reputation: 21688
What the heck is a PIP?
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:17 AM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,467,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
From a supervisor's perspective: A PIP is neither a tool for employee performance issues, nor is it a tool to fire someone; rather it's an HR invention to protect HR by inventing a paper trail.

Performance. If an employee is having performance issues, then I'm going to discuss and document those issues directly with the employee. What happens this depends on the source of the problem. If it's training, I get the employee trained. If it's lack of ability, we work on that. Only if the employee can not or will not do the job do we start down the termination path. Termination isn't a tool for routine issues; it's a last resort.

The PIP only comes up once I start the termination process. HR doesn't want to terminate employees; it's too much work. The PIP says what an employee must do to not be terminated. If the employee does those things, HR doesn't terminate. I've had employees cycle on PIP, off PIP, multiple times before HR would acknowledge the employee could not be helped.

PIP is step toward the last resort. I'd much rather get an employee turned around without one. Much better for everyone that way.
It's a tool to fire people. At my last work place, they put half the dept on PIPs within 6 months. People were let go or quit throughout those 6 months. No new reqs were posted. The head of the department announced an org change. The remaining staff would document all their projects, so that the work would be sent to India within 60 days. None of us would do the same work, but would be transitioned. It's pretty clear they had this in the works for 6 months.

Six months after the transition, they were looking to hire some Americans back to take over the work in India. Management was having issues with quality and deadlines with the India team.
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Old 04-21-2019, 07:45 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,034,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rummage View Post
Don't resign unless you have another job to go to. I know this isn't fun, but stay there until you find another job or they terminate you. If they terminate you, then you can more easily get unemployment benefits and hopefully a severance package. Don't complicate things by quitting.

If you quit or get fired, being unemployed you still have to come up with a story why you left your last job and don't have one now for other employers. So it is better to stay there as long as you can even if it ends in being fired.


rummage is giving the best advice here. At the point an employer is even thinking about putting you on a PIP, they've drawn their line in the sand. The relationship is severed irreparably. You owe them nothing besides what they're paying you for. I am consistently shocked at the number of people who quit after PIP notice. They're acting purely out of ego. You have nothing to gain by quitting and everything to lose. You are already likely to lose your job, so why shoot yourself in the foot? You "deal with it" by showing up everyday and not giving a damn, thereby laughing in their face by default. If an employer wants to fire you, you make them work for it.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:04 AM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,467,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post


rummage is giving the best advice here. At the point an employer is even thinking about putting you on a PIP, they've drawn their line in the sand. The relationship is severed irreparably. You owe them nothing besides what they're paying you for. I am consistently shocked at the number of people who quit after PIP notice. They're acting purely out of ego. You have nothing to gain by quitting and everything to lose. You are already likely to lose your job, so why shoot yourself in the foot? You "deal with it" by showing up everyday and not giving a damn, thereby laughing in their face by default. If an employer wants to fire you, you make them work for it.
Nothing wrong with quitting while on a PIP. Of the guys that I know that stayed for a PIP, they got fired and ended up unemployed for months. It really wrecked them, because other employers suspect that those guys were fired and wonder why nobody else is hiring them. When I left in the middle of the PIP, my new employer was paying $20k/yr more to work at larger company.

When I and my colleagues left for other jobs, we ended up making more money and happier except for a former supervisor that took a lower role just to support his family. He was running out of time and took the best offer available.

It's easier to find work, when you are still employed than not.

Last edited by move4ward; 04-21-2019 at 08:15 AM..
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:11 AM
 
3,774 posts, read 2,034,852 times
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If you can come up with a good reason why you up and quit a job (especially one that looks good on paper where you were there more than a year), then by all means...quit and don't put up with their games. You are not the first person to be fired, and you won't be the last. From my perspective it is much easier to be honest about a temination than to make up a story that you think sounds good. I know someone who has been terminated from almost every job they've had, and they always bounce back. Networking with the right people can overcome a termination.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:15 AM
 
6,844 posts, read 3,716,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
It's a tool to fire people. ....
No, it's a tool to protect HR. The PIP is just a hurdle to jump through put up by HR. If the supervisor gets to that point, they've already done everything to justify the termination -- counseling, retraining, letters in the file, etc. The supervisor doesn't need the PIP. The employee certainly doesn't; it just drags things out. The only one who gains by PIP is HR.
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Old 04-21-2019, 08:21 AM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,467,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
If you can come up with a good reason why you up and quit a job (especially one that looks good on paper where you were there more than a year), then by all means...quit and don't put up with their games. You are not the first person to be fired, and you won't be the last. From my perspective it is much easier to be honest about a temination than to make up a story that you think sounds good. I know someone who has been terminated from almost every job they've had, and they always bounce back. Networking with the right people can overcome a termination.
A reason to quit would be career progression, whether you are on a PIP or not. I have left many jobs, without being on a PIP. If I stayed on my first job, it would have been in a fast food kitchen. Now I get to make 6 figures playing with numbers, due to quitting and moving on to the next higher role.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,579 posts, read 17,561,360 times
Reputation: 27660
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
No, it's a tool to protect HR. The PIP is just a hurdle to jump through put up by HR. If the supervisor gets to that point, they've already done everything to justify the termination -- counseling, retraining, letters in the file, etc. The supervisor doesn't need the PIP. The employee certainly doesn't; it just drags things out. The only one who gains by PIP is HR.
When I was placed on my PIP, there was no formal performance coaching prior to the PIP. I had never been given a formal review, though I was only there for about five months at that point. No retraining was offered.

The job was not what it was purported to be from week 1. I was hired as an application administrator for software at a bank. I ran ethernet cable the first week. I did desktop and basic support for the first couple of months because the one person in the role was unwilling to help train me. When I was brought in, the manager admitted he wouldn't find someone with direct experience.

I brought this up to the manager, but we never gelled and probably didn't talk to each other for more than a couple hours the whole time I was there. I was also under the impression at the interview that the on-call duties were rotational, but it was constant.

Combine the job description being totally off with a bad boss, bad colleagues, and 24x7 availability requirements, I mentally checked out and couldn't give a damn less.

When these kinds of situations happen, "performance" may just be the cited reason. The reason to dismiss the employee may have nothing to do with performance at all.
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Old 04-22-2019, 07:24 AM
 
Location: San Diego
35,182 posts, read 32,154,534 times
Reputation: 19742
A PIP can backfire on the manager. If you have a proven track record that manager had damn well better have documentation. I had a stellar record at my work place and got placed under a real piece of work that went out of his way to be a richard. I didn't apply for it and for whatever reason they thought they were doing me a favor. I heard bad things about this one so documented from day one. His strategy was to break everyone that worked for him by demanding things that weren't normal requests, because well, he could. He pulled the PIP and I called his bluff with documentation and went to HR about it. He's still looking for work.
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