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Sorry, we're not in Brazil. No one is going to split hairs over mixed people, because no one cares. You want people to split hairs to find every excuse why they shouldn't be considered black, then you're better off peddling that crap in Latin America where it's widely embraced.
And yet what you peddle is not ****ty crap? You seem to be carrying and peddling a lot more bull**** and crap than anyone else.
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Originally Posted by branh0913 Actually, you may find this hard to believe, but I don't even care. I could care less about so-called mixed people. Who only want to be black when it's convinient to them. When I hear about Brazilans and their Pardos it makes me sick to my stomach.
Anyway, you fail to realize one thing about America. It's not about where you're from, what you're mixed with, and your cultural background. It's all about how you look. You look black, you are black. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, that's really the extent of race in America. America simply doesn't put that much effort into ethnicity. Never had, and never will. If you can glance at someone, you should be able to figure out what they are in 3 seconds. If you can't put them in a category, then you just call them mixed. Out of site, out of mind.
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Originally Posted by MelismaticEchoes
And that depends on what one defines or considers as looking black.
One group’s perception of what is “White”, “Black”, “Asian”, “Mixed” whatever might not be anothers. In one culture you might be seen as Black, in another you wouldn’t. The Masses vary by region
Ultimately, the dichotomy of Black and White introduced in Jim Crow (believe it or not, one droppism and what not was not a part of slavery) has caused a lot of these antagonisms. Forcing people to pick sides.
Yep, no reading comprehension. I told you you had a choice, but that African American choice was influenced by what its cultural parameters for Black are. Jim Crow created a much larger community that identifies as Black as it fused in mixed groups as well. So your choice is still affected by what you see growing up. And again, it is not just you the individual, it is about general trends.
A "biracial" Gen-X man on a recent program--I think it was one of the Soladad O'Brian specials about "Race in America" made a practical point that "society defines your race." As a practical matter, that's true everywhere when we speak of ethnic groups. If you're in Europe and somehow look "gypsy," that's how people will treat you.
Indian-Canadian comedian Russell Peters has loads to say about that--people looking at him or other "brown" people and trying to figure out what box to put him into so they would know how to treat him.
And of course, there were the issues from 9/11 to the current Miss America of people presuming that everyone who is brown but not "a black American of African slave ancestry" must be Muslim.
Yeah, it's all about appearances, and if what you are is any significance at all, it's because of how society treats you because of it.
Hawaii is an interesting place. There is definitely racism, and that plays out in certain ways. But it also very interesting in how it does not play out in the same way as on the Mainland.
For instance, most people who are of mixed culture are more than happy to call them all out on request, and for them, the longer the list, the better.
Hawaii is the only place I've seen where there is a slur term for white people that actually has the same emotional and psychological affect on them as slurs do on minorities on the Mainland.
My theory is that race in Hawaii is affected first by the fact that there is no demographic majority race and second by the fact that the culturally preferred race is that which the fewest residents belong. You can't be called a "Hawaiian" unless you're truly a cultural Hawaiian (you're just a "Hawaii resident") and there are relatively few true cultural Hawaiians. So most Hawaii residents spend at least some emotional energy as wannabe Hawaiians.
If I were to take a wild guess this Melis guy is probably some mixed guy, and people always call him black. He apparently has a problem with it, and needs to intellectualize the reason why he should be separate from other black people.
all these afro-descendent immigrants coming into america trying to do everything in their power to not be classified in the "black" race are annoying. yall need to go back to your countries where you have the option of choosing brown, mulatto and all the other bogus colors lol. either way your still gonna be looked down upon as not being full european & the whites surely arent gonna claim you. i think the black & mixed race americans arent blind to this (which is why majority of the time in america you see mixed people gravitate more to a black identity). whereas other places in the americas are. they think saying their brown or mixed will benefit them somehow for whatever reason.
Back in my IRC days, I use to always chat with this guy from Brazil, who talked about wanting to come to the USA. He often would asked me "what would this or that person be considered in America". The thing is, you really can't be carried completely by your race in America. You're incompotent white person, you will be treated accordingly. If you're an industrious black person, then you will treated accordingly. People may debate the extent of racism in America, but no one can deny that you can be successful no matter what your skin color is in this country.
Back in my IRC days, I use to always chat with this guy from Brazil, who talked about wanting to come to the USA. He often would asked me "what would this or that person be considered in America". The thing is, you really can't be carried completely by your race in America. You're incompotent white person, you will be treated accordingly. If you're an industrious black person, then you will treated accordingly. People may debate the extent of racism in America, but no one can deny that you can be successful no matter what your skin color is in this country.
It does have an effect. Colin Powell will tell you in a heartbeat that merely being good (or even the best) would not have resulted in him becoming a general...and he became an army officer a decade after the military was officially desegregated. To the extent that white Baby Boomers still control politics and industry in America today, that's still true.
When we Boomers are dead (or at least all retired), that can change.
And who the **** are you to tell someone who to identify with. Racial categories and groups are socially constructed perceptions.
Beyonce has every right to identify as mixed. Her father is Bahamian and her mother is a Louisiana Creole/Latin. Beyonce is MGM mixed. Multigenerationally Multiracially mixed race.
Also a person who has white or mixed grandparents should be able to identify as mixed. Stop playing the identity police. If a person is lying about who and what they are that's another story but a person has a right to identify with their backgrounds.
For example, Zoe Kravitz is the daughter of Lenny Kravitz and Lisa Bonet. Lenny Kravitz is half white Jewish American and half Bahamian. Lisa Bonet is half Louisiana Creole and half white Jewish American.
Evan Ross is the last child of Diana Ross and so he'd be more than half white.
So if Zoe Kravitz were to have a child with Evan Ross, it would only rightfully make sense that their proposed hypothetical offspring would identify as mixed or be mixed.
Obama's daughters are technically mixed.
In fact Obama's marriage could be considered interracial. If Obama had a white wife ppl would say it was interracial. But then again, Michell Obama has mixed ancestry as well.
I don't really have much respect for the totally made up names. First, I personally take names and the meanings of names seriously and prefer a little deliberate history and intention to a name. I would not demand that a name be specific to "our group," but I'd like my child to not say (as Bruce Willis did in "Pulp Fiction") "I'm an American; my name don't mean *****."
Second, a made-up name has a high probability of either being stupid or simply being an awkward spelling of a "real" name...or just awkward.
Most people simply aren't genuinely creative enough to invent a beautiful name. Linguistic art requires just as much talent in its genre as any other--not everyone knows how to coordinate colors pleasantly either. I don't know what you'd call "feng shui" for names, but names need it too. The benefit of a traditional name from any culture is that it's stood the test of time.
The names my wife and I chose for our children are Hebrew and chosen for their meanings. In my son's case, it also happened to fit that I could name him after my great-great-grandfather (the pioneer patriarch who took the family West out of Mississippi after the Civil War)--and that also imparts meaning.
So I don't have a problem with the black Americans who gave their children Muslim names during the 70s and 80s--at least not if they did with meaningful intention rather than fashion. There are some unfortunate Kizzies and Kuntas born in the late 70s.
And, yes, I know that white people can get on the fashion name bandwagon too--which is why a white character can utter Bruce Willis' line. Naming a girl Brooklyn is only slightly less stupid than naming a girl La-a (pronounced "La Dash Ah").
Many times the "made up" names are formed out of a combination of names. So, there may be an indirect meaning behind them.
If I were to take a wild guess this Melis guy is probably some mixed guy, and people always call him black. He apparently has a problem with it, and needs to intellectualize the reason why he should be separate from other black people.
You are unbelievable. Didn't you say that it has no impact on your life after I had to ask you numerous times what someone considers themselves? Now you lash out at the guy who's calling you on your crap because you cannot sustain a reasonable argument to back up whatever point you've been trying to make. So let me ask you yet again; why do you care what melis. might identify with (presuming you're correct in the first place). This post, indeed most of your responses in this thread prove that you have some unhealthy obsession with the way other people choose to identify themselves. Whenever anyone has tried to tell you that the perspective changes depending on who the observer is, you display a very pronounced psychological disconnect then run in circles using the same flawed, and seemingly uninformed logic.
You said you wanted to ask this question here and people have responded the way they've seen fit. What is it exactly that you're looking for?
I don't really have much respect for the totally made up names. First, I personally take names and the meanings of names seriously and prefer a little deliberate history and intention to a name. I would not demand that a name be specific to "our group," but I'd like my child to not say (as Bruce Willis did in "Pulp Fiction") "I'm an American; my name don't mean *****."
Second, a made-up name has a high probability of either being stupid or simply being an awkward spelling of a "real" name...or just awkward.
Most people simply aren't genuinely creative enough to invent a beautiful name. Linguistic art requires just as much talent in its genre as any other--not everyone knows how to coordinate colors pleasantly either. I don't know what you'd call "feng shui" for names, but names need it too. The benefit of a traditional name from any culture is that it's stood the test of time.
The names my wife and I chose for our children are Hebrew and chosen for their meanings. In my son's case, it also happened to fit that I could name him after my great-great-grandfather (the pioneer patriarch who took the family West out of Mississippi after the Civil War)--and that also imparts meaning.
So I don't have a problem with the black Americans who gave their children Muslim names during the 70s and 80s--at least not if they did with meaningful intention rather than fashion. There are some unfortunate Kizzies and Kuntas born in the late 70s.
And, yes, I know that white people can get on the fashion name bandwagon too--which is why a white character can utter Bruce Willis' line. Naming a girl Brooklyn is only slightly less stupid than naming a girl La-a (pronounced "La Dash Ah").
I don't agree. A name is just a title, at the end of the day, and naming your son "Ali" does not guarantee that he will become the greatest of all time, so...
Many of our made up names are meant to be musical. "Sound art", if you will. "Trayvon" or "Jamika" sounds pleasing to the ears. And the way these names come to be seems to be one of the influences of our African heritage. I personally enjoy some of them, and don't care that society finds them unacceptable.
Actually you may find this hard to believe but I believe in equality and freedoms for all people and am very anti one droppist. One droppism is racism and a bastion of segregationist Jim Crow thinking. In addition I call out all bull**** and hypocrisy that can help society move forward into the right direction and for progression and a better future.
I also continue to fight racism.
I have a question, if the one drop rule, which is really an incorrect term to begin with, offered different results, would you still be against it? What I guess I'm really asking is that if mixed people were instead viewed socio-historically(a key term) as White, would there be as much apprehension as we see now? I think this is something that I think people should think about and may actually push the conversation to a level which it hardly gets to and that is supremacy/purity, as well as the difference in that regard between different groups. In my opinion, the so called one drop rule has a different response depending on who to talk to. What I'm trying to say is that when you look at things from a socio-historical perspective, for Black people in this country, being a person of at least substantial Black African descent brings about a social reality within the general society. In turn, instead of historically running away from it, generally speaking, Black people in this country have embraced that reality to form a unique group of people, that outside of Native Americans, are more American than any other group in this country, given the volume of people with long time roots. So, the Black reaction is not an acceptance of White racist ideas/Black inferiority, but I believe an embracing of people of at least substantial, similar descent formed out of social realities.
I've heard a man say that Black people aren't dark skinned White people. I believe this case, this a good example of what he means due to what I previously stated.
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