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Old 04-08-2020, 11:12 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
No you got it just the opposite - the WHO doesn't ignore politics, they played politics. Taiwan was shut off from the coronavirus response by WHO. What Taiwan knew, the WHO chose to disregard. Thus they weren't involved in the global response that the WHO was trying to organize. Result - the WHO caused delayed response recommendations, basically cost lives.
This is only part of WHO mishandling, but to go into more detail is off topic. Needless to say, they are almost universally condemned at this point and you will likely see some changes soon.

For the rest of your comments - not worth responding to. The usual "but, but...the west did this as well 200 years ago". Spanish Flu I have no idea what that is about, I don't want to know. Again part of the "but...but...a century ago this happened" argument. News flash - this is TODAY, not history.
The WHO is part of the UN, and the UN recognizes Taiwan as a province of China, not more. Whether or not Taiwan is democratic is completely irrelevant to the UN, it is and has to be beyond ideology.

Unlike you I am objective. I don't set an arbitrary date and ignore the misdeed and happenings before that date just because they fit into my view of the world.

For instance, China was the first major victim of industrial espionage. The mere fact that it was a long time ago doesn't change anything about it.
https://interestingengineering.com/i...nd-its-history

There is a reason why porcelain is also called china or chinaware, the technology was stolen by the West. Just like the production of tea. Unlike today, both were important industries back then and earned the thieves fortunes. I see no difference to China doing the same today because I am a fair person.

The Spanish flu originated in the US, so it makes just as much or little sense to blame the US for the 50-100 million deaths as it makes to blame China for coronavirus.

 
Old 04-08-2020, 11:18 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Well, not exactly. He's put his weight behind a global push for TCM to be recognized and respected; most TCM is superstitious and functionless other than placebo and as has been noted, has decimated local and global wildlife and fauna - look at the current situation with the pandemic, which likely jumped from animal to human via consumption of wildlife for folk beliefs.

But, boosting TCM is a boon to the Chinese economy and it is hoped will give it some much-needed soft power if other nations pick it up (谢谢,WHO!!). So, that gets a pass.

Traditional religions in China such as Buddhism and Taoism have been given space in China for two reasons: 1) it keeps many people happy, and 2) like with TCM, it gives a boost to feeling so national pride at home as well as the potential for soft power abroad. So, before we give anyone credit for being an atheist rationalist, let's be honest about the nature of the pragmatism begin the policies.
TCM does include a few good things, acupuncture for instance. But yes, much of TCM is definitely bogus.

I like Taoism, it is way more intelligent and wiser than any of the religions from the Middle East. Buddhism is also fine with me. Both are not really religions with gods and everything, but philosophies. And the Chinese should definitely return to those good philosophies.
Unfortunately, Confucianism is preferred by the government if I am not mistaken. I think I read that recently.
 
Old 04-08-2020, 11:40 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
Taiwan is a democratic nation. THey should not be ignored. THe PRC is a authoritarian regime is waging electronic and now biological warfare.




Blame Putin and Fox news.






What did they steal? Gunpowder, noodles, and paper currency? You're smoking too much opium.








The PRC has created a bio-weapon in Wuhan Institute of Virology designated PLA Bio-weapon COVID-19. This has basically crippled countries and world economies.



Does anyone have Spanish flu right now? No! Stop trying to deflect.



https://news.yahoo.com/trail-leading...172025888.html


This is a product by an authoritarian regime bent on world domination. Just like Sun-tzu stated, they are able to win the war without fighting a battle.



All under Heaven! Tienguo!



I honestly hope this starts a yellow turban rebellion.





same thing


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a9117911.html


taking their organs too.






Not really. Just don't use a smart phone or electronics and live in the poconos. pretty easy. Go off the grid.







If anything the PRC needs more jesus. Easier to pacify the population.


Taiping rebellion!


Your views are nonsense, typical conspiracy stuff.
For instance, even renowned scientists in the West have analyzed the genome of the virus and found out that the virus has not been engineered, but is the unfortunate result of natural events. It is one big, global accident. I can understand that simple minds like to blame someone, anyone, because it is hard for them to deal with reality.
Both China and the US (as well as others) have done research on such viruses as bio weapons, so if you go down the conspiracy lane, you might as well consider another theory saying that the virus was taken from the US to China and deliberately released during the international military games that took place in Wuhan shortly before the outbreak.

Your only valid point is the organ harvesting allegation. I don't know whether it is true or not, it is the usual dispute, accusation vs denial. Although I can't blame China for fighting Muslim terrorism and separatism, of course that does not mean they have the right to simply kill those people and steal their organs.
 
Old 04-08-2020, 12:16 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,881,675 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The WHO is part of the UN, and the UN recognizes Taiwan as a province of China, not more. Whether or not Taiwan is democratic is completely irrelevant to the UN, it is and has to be beyond ideology.

Unlike you I am objective. I don't set an arbitrary date and ignore the misdeed and happenings before that date just because they fit into my view of the world.

For instance, China was the first major victim of industrial espionage. The mere fact that it was a long time ago doesn't change anything about it.
https://interestingengineering.com/i...nd-its-history

There is a reason why porcelain is also called china or chinaware, the technology was stolen by the West. Just like the production of tea. Unlike today, both were important industries back then and earned the thieves fortunes. I see no difference to China doing the same today because I am a fair person.

The Spanish flu originated in the US, so it makes just as much or little sense to blame the US for the 50-100 million deaths as it makes to blame China for coronavirus.

OK I will entertain one area within your stroll down memory lane:

"... Multiple studies have documented that there were relatively few deaths from the flu in China compared to other regions of the world.[26][27][28] This has led to speculation that the 1918 flu pandemic originated in China.[29][27][30][31] The relatively mild flu season and lower rates of flu mortality in China in 1918 may be explained due to the fact that the Chinese population had already possessed acquired immunity to the flu virus.[32][29][27]
In 1993, Claude Hannoun, the leading expert on the 1918 flu for the Pasteur Institute, asserted the former virus was likely to have come from China. It then mutated in the United States near Boston and from there spread to Brest, France, Europe's battlefields, Europe, and the world with Allied soldiers and sailors as the main disseminators.[33]
In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanis...out_the_source

China and epidemics - the gift that keeps on giving...
 
Old 04-08-2020, 12:32 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728
You could have copied the latest analysis from 2018 as well:

"A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas as those cases were milder and had fewer deaths compared to the situation in New York City in the same time period. The study did find evidence through phylogenetic analyses that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive. In addition, the haemagglutinin glycoproteins of the virus suggest that it was around far prior to 1918 and other studies suggest that the reassortment of the H1N1 virus likely occurred in or around 1915."
 
Old 04-08-2020, 12:41 PM
 
14,993 posts, read 23,881,675 times
Reputation: 26523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
You could have copied the latest analysis from 2018 as well:

"A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas as those cases were milder and had fewer deaths compared to the situation in New York City in the same time period. The study did find evidence through phylogenetic analyses that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive. In addition, the haemagglutinin glycoproteins of the virus suggest that it was around far prior to 1918 and other studies suggest that the reassortment of the H1N1 virus likely occurred in or around 1915."
Or this one from 2019:
https://www.history.com/news/china-e...historian-says

"According to new research by a Canadian historian, the 1918 flu outbreak that killed 50 million people originated in China"

But really dude, give history a rest....
 
Old 04-08-2020, 12:49 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Or this one from 2019:
https://www.history.com/news/china-e...historian-says

"According to new research by a Canadian historian, the 1918 flu outbreak that killed 50 million people originated in China"

But really dude, give history a rest....
It's one more theory, and the author says so himself:

"The mystery of the origins of the “Spanish flu,” is not totally solved, however. “Only DNA testing of samples from these earlier outbreaks can truly confirm or deny the theory,” Humphries acknowledges."

Also, the article basically blames Brits, not the Chinese:

"Humphries points to a historical footnote from World War I—the shipment of 94,000 laborers from northern China to southern England and France to free up able-bodied British and French citizens to fight on the front lines of the Western Front. During the winter of 1917, upwards of 20,000 workers a month from the plague-infected area of China arrived in the British-leased port city of Weihaiwei to become part of the Chinese Labor Corps. They were packed into crowded barracks, which were breeding grounds for influenza. Although the British were aware of the outbreaks at their barracks, they still shipped out the Chinese workers."
 
Old 04-08-2020, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
3,834 posts, read 4,438,748 times
Reputation: 6120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Again, lots of claims, but no proof. Do the people who claim China is lying about not having registered any new corona deaths today have any proof to the contrary?
According to the official data China has only 1242 active cases left, Ireland has 5165 active cases and also reports zero deaths today. Japan has 3222 active cases and not a single death either.

Also, unlike what people here say, China has a pretty good, modern healthcare system, especially in the cities. They do have a pharma problem, but that is not really important regarding corona.
415_s2k already exposed your bolded statement as complete nonsense. So it's safe to say that you dont really know what you are talking about with regards to China's ability to fight the virus based on the strength of its healthcare system.

Again, unless you have a vaccine developed, there is NO WAY that a pandemic just stops completely like that. We have vaccines for the common flu and yet we still get cases of the flu AND people dying. Yet China claims no new cases whatsoever and no deaths just out of the blue. This is mind boggling and suggests that China is sweeping the pandemic under the rug and hope that the Chinese people somehow dont notice the continuing deaths and disease wreaking havoc.

Unless they DO have a vaccine and are not sharing it with the rest of the world which is equally messed up. Either way, this is a PR disaster for China.
 
Old 04-08-2020, 02:39 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,735,836 times
Reputation: 9728
Out of the blue? Yesterday was the first day they reported zero deaths, today they had two. And the strong decrease of deaths took weeks, it didn't come out of the blue.

Despite the end of the 3-month lockdown, controls in China are still tight. They just showed some footage from Wuhan today. People are still being tracked, some walk around with full-body protection as if they were lab employees. I hope that is not the future for Europe.
 
Old 04-08-2020, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,363 posts, read 8,396,033 times
Reputation: 5260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I hope that is not the future for Europe.
Until they find a cure or vaccine it probably will be.
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