MGM’s pitch for a $1B casino in Downtown Atlanta (Springfield: design, rich)

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Can of you pro-casino folks give an example of an urban mega casino project you would hope for Atlanta to imitate? We don't need to make downtown into a "destination", it already is one. We need to make it into a neighborhood.

I'll give Horseshoe Cleveland as an example. Where I think Ceasars gets it wrong in Baltimore and in Cleveland is that they don't activate the streets they are on. I think the shell in Cleveland would fit nicely in Atlanta. The only change I would make is that there should be storefronts along the street. It seems that the Horseshoe was lazy here. They could have cafes, restaurants, clothing stores, etc. Something to offer those who aren't necessarily visiting the casino. I think Cleveland could have done a better job in forcing Ceasars to activate the streets better. There could be 4 floors of condos or apartments on top of the Cleveland example.

This is where I think MGM shines in MGM Springfield. They will have outward-facing stores activating the streets that they are on.

Horseshoe Cleveland (Streets aren't activated. Just a bunch of awnings making it look like there are stores. Perhaps there are offices above the casino floors?)




The casino is on the left with the yellow glow.




MGM Springfield (Activated streets with stores and shops facing the street. Condos/apartments are on top.)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

I'll give Horseshoe Cleveland as an example. Where I think Ceasars gets it wrong in Baltimore and in Cleveland is that they don't activate the streets they are on. I think the shell in Cleveland would fit nicely in Atlanta. The only change I would make is that there should be storefronts along the street. It seems that the Horseshoe was lazy here. They could have cafes, restaurants, clothing stores, etc. Something to offer those who aren't necessarily visiting the casino. I think Cleveland could have done a better job in forcing Ceasars to activate the streets better. There could be 4 floors of condos or apartments on top of the Cleveland example.

This is where I think MGM shines in MGM Springfield. They will have outward-facing stores activating the streets that they are on.

Horseshoe Cleveland (Streets aren't activated. Just a bunch of awnings making it look like there are stores. Perhaps there are offices above the casino floors?)




The casino is on the left with the yellow glow.




MGM Springfield (Activated streets with stores and shops facing the street. Condos/apartments are on top.)

Hmm, OK. Those don't look as bad. I am more concerned about the urban fabric and it not being another mega-project that splits up the city and makes it unappealing to live around. If they did something more like this where they activated the streets and mixed in a lot of other uses (especially a good number of residential units) I might be open to it.

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by JMatl

And most of us don't want this Downtown. Period.

What is your better option for high scale downtown entertainment then? And especially after 8pm, it would make the most sense to place this near the center of gravity rather than some outskirts. You want people to have to drive to Cumberland or somewhere distant just for fun? It's not like it would really be an outlier near downtown, where mostly you have stadiums, hotels, aquarium, convention space etc. When done properly, these types of venues will attract more tourists than anything and bring more unexpected revenue to the city.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by the resident09

What is your better option for high scale downtown entertainment then? And especially after 8pm, it would make the most sense to place this near the center of gravity rather than some outskirts. You want people to have to drive to Cumberland or somewhere distant just for fun? It's not like it would really be an outlier near downtown, where mostly you have stadiums, hotels, aquarium, convention space etc. When done properly, these types of venues will attract more tourists than anything and bring more unexpected revenue to the city.

Negative, CAP did research on the idea and came back with that there would be little to no net increase in revenue as it would pull revenue from other areas in downtown.

[magnetar]

That Horseshoe casino just looks like a gussied-up big box store, with one entrance and a little architectural fakery to make it look like separate businesses. It's actually a pretty bad adaptation of what looks like a historic building that would have a lot of promise, if it offered something that actually draws locals into it. The MGM Springfield rendering looks like your average "lifestyle center" you'd see proposed outside the perimeter somewhere. If they can manage to cram a casino into a building that doesn't look like a big box, actually supports a mix of uses, and activates the public sidewalk, then great. But everything I've seen so far seems to indicate that they can not.

Here's what the street activity around that Cleveland casino looks like in real life:



Dead, except for a smattering of tourists and a bunch of people waiting for the bus.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by magnetar

That Horseshoe casino just looks like a gussied-up big box store, with one entrance and a little architectural fakery to make it look like separate businesses. The MGM Springfield rendering looks like your average "lifestyle center" you'd see proposed outside the perimeter somewhere. If they can manage to cram a casino into a building that doesn't look like a big box, actually supports a mix of uses, and activates the public sidewalk, then great. But everything I've seen so far seems to indicate that they can not.

Of course not, Casinos are made to keep patrons inside and confuse them about how much time and money they have spent inside the casino.

[bryantm3]

casinos, the stock market, investment banking... it's all the same, gaming a system to generate wealth out of thin air without doing anything meaningful for anyone. it is absurd and honestly society would be better off without any of it. maybe we should abolish currency altogether.

[Mossberg]

Gambling is a form of optional entertainment. It's no different than someone spending money at Dave and Busters or on indoor skydiving.

No one makes you do it. If you don't like gambling, don't go to the casino. It's simple, really.

There's no reason why we can't have a casino downtown. We can mandate design so that it does not become a "fortress".

Just because other cities have screwed up their casino designs doesn't automatically mean Atlanta has to. Dare to do it differently.

People can be so closed-minded sometimes. Many old stereotypes are no longer valid (casinos bring crime, MARTA brings crime, etc).

I'm not a gambler, but I wouldn't care if others partake in it, since it doesn't affect me in any way. I also don't go to strip clubs, but I don't care if others do.

Let the people decide what they want. If you took a vote to legalize gambling in GA right now and also to put a casino downtown, I bet it would easily pass with residents.

[magnetar]

If a developer brought a well-designed urban casino in front of community meetings, I'd be happy to voice my support for it. I like gambling. It's not a moral argument for me. But it's also not my job to create this mythical casino that doesn't look like the result of Donald Trump designing the prison he'll be sent to after he violates the constitution.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

casinos, the stock market, investment banking... it's all the same, gaming a system to generate wealth out of thin air without doing anything meaningful for anyone. it is absurd and honestly society would be better off without any of it. maybe we should abolish currency altogether.

Don't think you can put the stock market and investment banking in the same basket with casinos. There is far more to corporate finance than rolling a pair of dice.