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Old 11-21-2016, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,882,415 times
Reputation: 5703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Why would anyone be against this? It would be many high end retailers and restaurants to downtown to cater to the casino crowd.
Personally I am against it because we are trying to build a REAL community in downtown. We don't need more development that carters only to tourist or workers and keeps them locked up in massive fortresses that focus all their energy, etc. on the interior where the casino can control every little thing.
FWIW I am not against casinos at all and enjoy gambling.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:01 AM
 
10,974 posts, read 10,882,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Why would anyone be against this? It would be many high end retailers and restaurants to downtown to cater to the casino crowd.
I guess you haven't been around many casinos or their clientele. They do not cater to high end retailers and restaurants.

If you want a mega casino & it's bad urban design, put it in your backyard / a suburb. Not mine.

Seems like a great fit for going next to SunTrust Park.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,242 posts, read 6,242,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Seems like a great fit for going next to SunTrust Park.
That would be perfect, not even being sarcastic.

But I would imagine the casino developer would not be interested as they probably want to setup their own "district", just like the Metro Atlanta Braves did with the Blattery
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:44 AM
 
10,974 posts, read 10,882,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
That would be perfect, not even being sarcastic.

But I would imagine the casino developer would not be interested as they probably want to setup their own "district", just like the Metro Atlanta Braves did with the Blattery
I am only half-joking with that too. Would be a good fit with STP. I am sure they would build it a couple miles away with their own "district" anyways. I don't think that area will be setup to allow easy walking between developments any time soon.
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Old 11-21-2016, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,882,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
I am only half-joking with that too. Would be a good fit with STP. I am sure they would build it a couple miles away with their own "district" anyways. I don't think that area will be setup to allow easy walking between developments any time soon.
Cobb County just cleared some land (using taxpayer money) near Six Flags.
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:32 AM
 
1,456 posts, read 1,321,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
I guess you haven't been around many casinos or their clientele. They do not cater to high end retailers and restaurants.

If you want a mega casino & it's bad urban design, put it in your backyard / a suburb. Not mine.

Seems like a great fit for going next to SunTrust Park.
Or maybe you have only been to low end casinos? High end casinos do have high end boutiques around them
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Old 11-21-2016, 10:53 AM
 
10,974 posts, read 10,882,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Or maybe you have only been to low end casinos? High end casinos do have high end boutiques around them
I have been around both. If you want high-end retail, a casino is not the way to attract it. Not that high-end retail is what we even want.

Downtown needs regular retail. Places to buy groceries, clothes for work and school, office supplies, etc. Not high-end boutiques.

The "National Harbor" Casino that is being held up as an example is not in downtown. It is outside the beltway near outlet malls. If you want to bring a mega casino here, do the same. Put it in the suburbs.
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Old 11-21-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,130 posts, read 7,581,348 times
Reputation: 5796
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
They are a fortress in that the aim to keep their patrons inside and focus all activity on the interior, like a shopping mall or lifestyle center.
I think the huge difference is that in MD this is ok because National Harbor is already a separated development from the downtown core on a waterfront south of DC. This new casino does not disrupt any existing urbanity or development if you simply drive past it and look at the topography from I-95. In fact, back in 2012 when the casino first got approved in Maryland, the CEO of MGM practically said it was the best placed location for a resort/casino of its type on the Eastern Seaboard, which is why they invested so much more into it than Springfield.

Contrast this to Atlanta, do the residents really want to see their downtown broken up by an edifice this large and sacrifice street activity in the heart of Midtown-Downtown? Where would they place it, the old Turner Field site? Many questions still have to be answered.
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Old 11-21-2016, 12:13 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,578,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Personally I am against it because we are trying to build a REAL community in downtown. We don't need more development that carters only to tourist or workers and keeps them locked up in massive fortresses that focus all their energy, etc. on the interior where the casino can control every little thing.
FWIW I am not against casinos at all and enjoy gambling.
I've been to Atlantic City and the boardwalk and the ocean are the biggest attractions. People aren't necessarily locked up in the casinos. There are shops and restaurants outside of those casinos along the boardwalk that get business as well. I've been to Maryland Live and never felt I had to stay there forever. The massive Arundel Mills Outlet Mall is the bigger attraction across the street.

In addition, visitors at MGM National Harbor won't be locked up in the casino. They will have Historic Downtown Alexandria, DC, and other parts of National Harbor including the outlets a block away to visit. I have visited a number of casinos and have never been locked in for more than a few hours. Which is no longer than going to watch a feature film or watching a 3-hour football game. You go in, you play your limit, have a drink at the bar, or a nice dinner, then you leave. I may window shop in the casino but chances are I will go out and shop in town.

The example I chose for Atlanta was MGM Springfield because it will have condos and street retail as well. Not just a concrete box designed to keep patrons inside. If you noticed in the renderings, there were a lot of outdoor amenities where non-casino patrons can enjoy without stepping foot on a casino floor.

I agree that a 2-block casino that is closed to the outside like the Horseshoe in Baltimore is not the kind that I would want to see in a city like Atlanta.

Here is a concrete box that decided not to integrate into the city (Baltimore Horsehoe).



I find it ironic though that enclosed shopping centers, which have food courts, etc. have the same goal of keeping people inside. Yet, I do hear from people who hate the town-center type format where retail is outside in a street grid pattern. Go figure. To each his own.

But as far as a casino downtown, I think MGM Springfield is a good representation of integration. In addition, MGM won't have its own theater there. They will book shows at the nearby arena, further integrating into the city with as little impact as possible.
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Old 11-21-2016, 12:15 PM
 
Location: It's in the name!
7,083 posts, read 9,578,183 times
Reputation: 3780
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
I think the huge difference is that in MD this is ok because National Harbor is already a separated development from the downtown core on a waterfront south of DC. This new casino does not disrupt any existing urbanity or development if you simply drive past it and look at the topography from I-95. In fact, back in 2012 when the casino first got approved in Maryland, the CEO of MGM practically said it was the best placed location for a resort/casino of its type on the Eastern Seaboard, which is why they invested so much more into it than Springfield.

Contrast this to Atlanta, do the residents really want to see their downtown broken up by an edifice this large and sacrifice street activity in the heart of Midtown-Downtown? Where would they place it, the old Turner Field site? Many questions still have to be answered.
I picked MGM National Harbor only as an example of the amount of lighting new casinos try to incorporate into their floor plans. It's not as enclosed as Maryland Live or Baltimore Horseshoe.
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