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If the price of gas in the USA gets up around $10 a gallon those little European cars with their little 1L diesel engines will start being much more numerous on American roads.
Many more cars like the VW Polo will be the ride of choice. Volkswagen Polo UK details
America is so backward when it comes to engines. Still stuck in the ancient "there ain't no replacement for displacement" mentality. That's because fuel is still very cheap in the US. When it's $10 a gallon you have to get more sophisticated.
My current car has a 2L diesel engine. 140mph, 0-60 in 7 seconds, great in gear acceleration times and easily tops 55mpg. I can get 65mpg with only a little effort.
There is nothing resembling this is the US, and there won't be until fuel gets more expensive.
The prehistoric old pushrod V8's in US cars are terrible. They drink fuel and the bhp per litre ratio is a joke.
Spending too much time in your car is not considered quality of life here.
The day will come that fuel will be too expensive to be burned in cars. I seriously wonder what you Americans are going to do then with your huge distances? Write off the whole country or something? We will be fine with everything in walking or public transportation distance. Even over here you see small towns without amenities running out of favour and losing population. You build up your whole country under the false assumption that cheap fuel would be available forever.
In addition, there is a certain part of the population that simply can't drive like kids, the elderly, the disabled and the poor. It is really characteristic for the American attitude not to care about those whereas they are generally fine over here. The whole concept of 'soccer mom', driving kids around all day, originated from this defect in your planning skills, it would be unthinkable over here.
Actually, the poor do tend to drive quite a lot here. They drive junk beaters that tend not to pass inspection, but they drive a lot more than you would think. One of the side effects of our car-oriented culture is a large supply of used beaters available for comparatively cheap prices. They're not efficient, reliable, or even safe in some cases, but they're functional. These are generally the same cars that teenagers end up in as their first rides (the ones that don't have relatively rich benefactors somewhere in the family tree anyway).
The elderly drive a lot here too. The rest of us completely hate it, since they tend do do 55 MPH on the highway at best, and sometimes slower. But they drive.
Anyway, given how much natural gas we have in this country, the advancements in battery technology, and simply the independent American culture, the build-up you speak of will continue as is. Remember, this country "sprawled" way before the car was invented. Railroads and then automobiles were a RESULT of the more independent American culture, not the cause.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart G. Griffin
America is so backward when it comes to engines. Still stuck in the ancient "there ain't no replacement for displacement" mentality. That's because fuel is still very cheap in the US. When it's $10 a gallon you have to get more sophisticated.
My current car has a 2L diesel engine. 140mph, 0-60 in 7 seconds, great in gear acceleration times and easily tops 55mpg. I can get 65mpg with only a little effort.
There is nothing resembling this is the US, and there won't be until fuel gets more expensive.
The prehistoric old pushrod V8's in US cars are terrible. They drink fuel and the bhp per litre ratio is a joke.
Granted on the pushrod V8s but you're starting to see a lot more interesting options like turbos from GM and Ford here as well. Unfortunately, no one knows how to drive them properly yet, so they're not seeing fuel savings. In that regard, there IS no replacement for displacement. The concept of "displacement on demand" with a turbo translates to displacement 100% of the time unless you know how a turbo works and how to drive it.
BTW, your car sounds like a Cruze Diesel or similar. We have that in the US now. But I'm driving a 2.5L high compression gas engine that gets 40 MPG out of cheaper 87 octane regular gas, while also giving me a 7 second 0-60 time as well as all sorts of other driving jollies. So I'm good thanks.
Could the popularity if smaller cars and engines in Europe also be attributed to some areas having very narrow roads due to cities built during horse drawn carriage days? You'd never get a 60s or 70s Cadillac or wide track Pontiac sedan through some parts if Europe. The original Fiat 500 and Mini Cooper could easily maneuver through such roads while today's larger versions of the same cars barely gets by on those same roads. Doubt we'll see the return of the Peel or the Isetta.
The diesel situation is its own separate category, but the lack of diesels in the US has the same basic root cause as the relatively small list of engine options (diesel or petrol): the expense of EPA mandates.
Car companies have been pushing to streamline the regulatory process between the US and the EU. If that happens I hope it leans more toward the EU's standards and procedures. In any case, streamlining the process may mean we finally get some models here that aren't currently available.
Spending too much time in your car is not considered quality of life here.
The day will come that fuel will be too expensive to be burned in cars. I seriously wonder what you Americans are going to do then with your huge distances? Write off the whole country or something? We will be fine with everything in walking or public transportation distance. Even over here you see small towns without amenities running out of favour and losing population. You build up your whole country under the false assumption that cheap fuel would be available forever.
In addition, there is a certain part of the population that simply can't drive like kids, the elderly, the disabled and the poor. It is really characteristic for the American attitude not to care about those whereas they are generally fine over here. The whole concept of 'soccer mom', driving kids around all day, originated from this defect in your planning skills, it would be unthinkable over here.
If the day comes when "fuel will be too expensive to be burned in cars" then Europeans will probably starve. While you like to pat yourselves on the back for the efficiency of transportation, we have our own efficiencies as well; it just shows up in different ways. While Europe has stressed efficiencies in moving people around, the US has stressed efficiencies in moving goods around, which is part of why consumer goods cost less here. If we ever reach the day you believe is coming, it's going to be damned expensive for you Europeans to get your goods to market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart G. Griffin
America is so backward when it comes to engines. Still stuck in the ancient "there ain't no replacement for displacement" mentality. That's because fuel is still very cheap in the US. When it's $10 a gallon you have to get more sophisticated.
My current car has a 2L diesel engine. 140mph, 0-60 in 7 seconds, great in gear acceleration times and easily tops 55mpg. I can get 65mpg with only a little effort.
There is nothing resembling this is the US, and there won't be until fuel gets more expensive.
The prehistoric old pushrod V8's in US cars are terrible. They drink fuel and the bhp per litre ratio is a joke.
Pfft. Please. You don't know jack-sh*t about the current car market here. The average displacement in cars sold today is probably somewhere in the 2.3L to 2.5L range. The only place you're going to find pushrod motors here is certain trucks, the Viper, and the small handful of GM performance cars like the Corvette, Camaro, and Holden-based Chevy SS.
You know why those engines are still pushrod? Because it still works. That "terrible" engine in the C7 Corvette puts out 460HP and is EPA-rated at 36mpg (imperial). And that's a realistic, real-world number unlike the hilariously optimistic EU test-cycle ratings. I'd like to see any European sports car with similar power and/or performance achieve achieve anywhere close to fuel economy like that.
If the day comes when "fuel will be too expensive to be burned in cars" then Europeans will probably starve. While you like to pat yourselves on the back for the efficiency of transportation, we have our own efficiencies as well; it just shows up in different ways. While Europe has stressed efficiencies in moving people around, the US has stressed efficiencies in moving goods around, which is part of why consumer goods cost less here. If we ever reach the day you believe is coming, it's going to be damned expensive for you Europeans to get your goods to market.
Pfft. Please. You don't know jack-sh*t about the current car market here. The average displacement in cars sold today is probably somewhere in the 2.3L to 2.5L range. The only place you're going to find pushrod motors here is certain trucks, the Viper, and the small handful of GM performance cars like the Corvette, Camaro, and Holden-based Chevy SS.
You know why those engines are still pushrod? Because it still works. That "terrible" engine in the C7 Corvette puts out 460HP and is EPA-rated at 36mpg (imperial). And that's a realistic, real-world number unlike the hilariously optimistic EU test-cycle ratings. I'd like to see any European sports car with similar power and/or performance achieve achieve anywhere close to fuel economy like that.
I've never met your friend Jack, but when I was in the US a couple of months ago I rented a Ford SUV with a 2.5L engine. Couldn't get more than 22mpg out of it.
The exact same car in the UK with its diesel engine averages over 40mpg and has better performance figures as well.
btw the Corvette is an awful car. 450bhp from 6.2 litres is not good at all. BMW, Jaguar, Audi and Mercedes all make smaller engines with more bhp & torque
I've never met your friend Jack, but when I was in the US a couple of months ago I rented a Ford SUV with a 2.5L engine. Couldn't get more than 22mpg out of it.
The exact same car in the UK with its diesel engine averages over 40mpg and has better performance figures as well.
How nice that you rented a car here. Doesn't mean you know dick about the car market here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewart G. Griffin
btw the Corvette is an awful car. 450bhp from 6.2 litres is not good at all. BMW, Jaguar, Audi and Mercedes all make smaller engines with more bhp & torque
Not without forced induction they don't. And what sort of fuel economy do they achieve? Power per unit of displacement is an utterly irrelevant figure if there's no other benefit associated with it.
Name me one European car with similar power and/or performance that achieves anywhere close to the fuel economy the Corvette does.
I've never met your friend Jack, but when I was in the US a couple of months ago I rented a Ford SUV with a 2.5L engine. Couldn't get more than 22mpg out of it.
The exact same car in the UK with its diesel engine averages over 40mpg and has better performance figures as well.
btw the Corvette is an awful car. 450bhp from 6.2 litres is not good at all. BMW, Jaguar, Audi and Mercedes all make smaller engines with more bhp & torque
With the Corvette in particular (and to a lesser extent the Viper) part of the design constraint is to have an engine that's as small as possible in the vertical dimension to keep the vehicle low and aerodynamic. For that sort of application pushrods do have an advantage over overhead cams which makes up for their disadvantages (like lower redlines and greater reciprocating mass). That powerful an engine would be too wide to make a boxer.
I'm guessing that Ford was using the Duratec25, which is basically the old 2.5L MZR engine.
How nice that you rented a car here. Doesn't mean you know dick about the car market here.
If you can't be polite in response to perfectly reasonable points, then I won't bother to try to reason you out of a position you clearly didn't reason your way into.
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