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Old 09-23-2019, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,278,266 times
Reputation: 14591

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Autonomous vehicles are the only solution to urban traffic jams..
I thought car pooling was. Oh wait, that didn't't work either. Bike lanes?

 
Old 09-23-2019, 11:14 AM
 
29,491 posts, read 14,656,154 times
Reputation: 14453
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlife619 View Post
Just about every news article regarding the future of transportation in the world seems to be EV and autonomous ways to get around while the ICE will slowly go away into extinction.

But why?

Why is the government pushing this agenda so severely? They say it’s to help fight climate change and reduce pollution levels, but I think the government will always find ways to ban something, and eventually ban EV because once they become mainstream, the cause of pollution and or the strain on natural resources will then be blamed on the huge increases on battery production, and the disposal of old batteries compared to a basic 12 volt battery in a ICE today.

Almost forgot to mention the extreme strain on the power grid systems once EV will become a norm. The long charging times and the expense it will have on consumers will be counter intuitive. I can fill up a tank of gas in my car in a few minutes or less, while having to charge an EV can take hours. It’s not realistic for many people in such a busy fast paced world we live in today.

Onto autonomous vehicles. The heavy push by automakers, including the government leads me to believe that they want to force the public out of vehicle ownership. I can see the future being strictly leased based, where automakers will charge a big rate in order for the public to be able to use an autonomous car/truck/cuv.

No longer will we be able to have control over what we buy, rather, the government and auto manufacturers will cry “it’s all about safety, and saving lives” in order to pass in their agenda on revoking ownership of automobiles because humans are inherently flawed and that somehow a computer will be able to drive better than humans. Well the argument is, what happens when those computers malfunction and or have problems? The complexity of it all will make EV combined with autonomous vehicles more prone to break downs and very expensive to fix.


No more fun, no more ownership, as vehicle transportation will be seen as a luxury that only the wealthy can afford.

What do you say? Is there something shady going on behind close doors amongst our Governments and Automakers?
While I don't see it as a big Government push for it, I do understand what you mean. I feel that the OEM's are trying to great a market that isn't really there yet. And they are throwing all the cards in for it. GM and Ford restructured their work force for it. OEM's that never would collaborate are doing so now like GM and Honda, and I think Ford and VW.
I sort of understand why all the companies are jumping on board with it though, they don't want to be left behind. And for what ever reasons, the automotive industry is going to look very different in the next 10, 20, 30 years. Already, GM is stating they are a "transportation" company. And they are really pushing it with the Zero, Zero, Zero game plan. Zero emissions, Zero congestion, Zero crashes.
 
Old 09-23-2019, 11:17 AM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,474 posts, read 11,562,622 times
Reputation: 11986
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
While I don't see it as a big Government push for it, I do understand what you mean. I feel that the OEM's are trying to great a market that isn't really there yet. And they are throwing all the cards in for it. GM and Ford restructured their work force for it. OEM's that never would collaborate are doing so now like GM and Honda, and I think Ford and VW.
I sort of understand why all the companies are jumping on board with it though, they don't want to be left behind. And for what ever reasons, the automotive industry is going to look very different in the next 10, 20, 30 years. Already, GM is stating they are a "transportation" company. And they are really pushing it with the Zero, Zero, Zero game plan. Zero emissions, Zero congestion, Zero crashes.
The dealerships HATE electric vehicles. There is almost no maintenance compared to ICE cars. No oil changes. No transmission services. Rare brake jobs. They are actively trying to slow the rollouts.
 
Old 09-23-2019, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
170 posts, read 97,700 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlife619 View Post
Just about every news article regarding the future of transportation in the world seems to be EV and autonomous ways to get around while the ICE will slowly go away into extinction.

But why?

Why is the government pushing this agenda so severely?

What do you say? Is there something shady going on behind close doors amongst our Governments and Automakers?
I contemplated the same question myself and came up with some data, I wouldn't say a conclusion but information which with more data could be used to draw a conclusion.

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...omment-9806406

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...omment-9807004
 
Old 09-23-2019, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
170 posts, read 97,700 times
Reputation: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
OP, that's been one of my fears ever since I saw a movie entitled "The Last Chase," in which a guy escapes a car-free dystopia and gets chased across country before he reaches the promised land of California, where cars are still allowed.

Looks like it'll be the opposite, people with cars escaping the car-free "utopia" of California...lol.
"The Last Chase" was pretty good early MST3K episode:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiNmX2nYBck
 
Old 09-23-2019, 06:48 PM
 
Location: moved
13,656 posts, read 9,717,813 times
Reputation: 23481
Americans love novelty. Electric vehicles are a convergence of novelty, fashion, hipness and a kind of self-described fraternity of ostentatious virtue.

Electric propulsion could enable light, limber, streamlined personal transportation... "cars" weighing only a few hundred pounds. Yet we see none of this, not even in the most "progressive" nest of urban sophistication. Instead, the rage is all about increasing miles-driven between a recharge, which means larger and heavier batteries, which means larger and heavier vehicles.
 
Old 09-23-2019, 07:51 PM
 
Location: 0.83 Atmospheres
11,474 posts, read 11,562,622 times
Reputation: 11986
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Americans love novelty. Electric vehicles are a convergence of novelty, fashion, hipness and a kind of self-described fraternity of ostentatious virtue.

Electric propulsion could enable light, limber, streamlined personal transportation... "cars" weighing only a few hundred pounds. Yet we see none of this, not even in the most "progressive" nest of urban sophistication. Instead, the rage is all about increasing miles-driven between a recharge, which means larger and heavier batteries, which means larger and heavier vehicles.
We see none of this? I see them every day.



When the NTSB allows these lightweight vehicles on the highways let me know.
 
Old 09-23-2019, 10:07 PM
 
28,122 posts, read 12,603,511 times
Reputation: 15341
Quote:
Originally Posted by corolla5speed View Post
EV's is simply much more efficient. Electric motors run in industry 24-7 with a 2 week shutdown per year to rebuild an refurbish such equipment. These motors commonly last 30 or more years. There are 2 bearings (the wear parts in an electric motor). There are hundreds of wear parts in an internal combustion engine. The problem is the supply and control of the electronic and battery materials are owned or controlled by China. The western world has been based on the oil dollar and China wants the new standard to be based on the battery dollar. Looks like the hybrid will be the compromise.

As for Autonomous Vehicles it took hundreds years to refine our roads-ways and infrastructure which are not perfect but are a lot better off then most of the world. Think about what the bottle necks actually are in transportation in this country. Most of which are thousands of drivers slowing down and gawking at the overturned Vehicle which ran off the road.


Semi-Autonomous cars and trucks are not a bad thing. The reason again is accidents cost lives and money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

People are moving faster then ever before with busier lives. Distraction and unforeseen mechanical issues are being eliminated with driver assist features and additional OBD2 features. Over-speed control on vehicles is very close to being implemented as well.

It's the cost of safe Vehicles.
I just got done reading the story of the guy that first came up with running vaporized fuel, and how he was getting close to 80mpg...and this was decades ago, govt tried all they all could to shut him down, he survived one assassination attempt, just by the skin of his teeth, but ultimately he died of a mysterious overdose a year later...so they got to him after all, its not in their best interest for vehicles to be THAT economical.
 
Old 09-23-2019, 10:44 PM
 
1,503 posts, read 607,806 times
Reputation: 1323
OP,
yes, there seems to be heavy push for EV, but it's hard to tell the reason.

The way things stand right now:

1) EV are only good for max ~3 hours driving a day (75mph limit * 3hours = 225 miles range). Add winter conditions, "real" road conditions, and you are lucky to get even that far. Yeah, they promise longer distances now, but so far it's just that: promises, not a real cars.
2) No infrastructure for EV across US.

So, EV for right now is good only for office workers that drive it only within the city for a daily commute. As soon as those poor souls will want to get out (vacation, or just day trip to somewhere, or getaway for a weekend, or anything require longer drive) they are doomed. They will either need to buy an extra ICE car (hilarious, right?), or rent an ICE car. Either way, these are expenses on top of owning EV. With the absence of infrastructure nobody gonna dare to travel EV beyond half of its range. Once EV charge stations will be placed with the same density as gas stations, things might change, but it's a long story that will take years.

Unless you life exclusively consists of a "home-work-home" route without ever stepping to a side, EV will cost way more than ICE as of right now.

So, may be that's the goal of those companies pushing EVs - to sell you two cars (EV + ICE) instead of just one (ICE)?
 
Old 09-24-2019, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,443 posts, read 9,540,640 times
Reputation: 15907
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I just got done reading the story of the guy that first came up with running vaporized fuel, and how he was getting close to 80mpg...and this was decades ago, govt tried all they all could to shut him down, he survived one assassination attempt, just by the skin of his teeth, but ultimately he died of a mysterious overdose a year later...so they got to him after all, its not in their best interest for vehicles to be THAT economical.
*sigh*.
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