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I've moved my family across the U.S., twice. Each time, I drove a loaded car (with rooftop cargo, bike rack, etc.) about 1,000 miles a day for three days, in all sorts of weather.
In 15 years, EV's had better be able to do that, or this plan is not going to succeed. It would be great if EV's could go 1K on a charge; I'd definitely get one. But you can't legislate technical advances and legislatures should stick to more realistic things, like enacting tax incentives for battery research.
Only if you plug it into 110v. A Level 2 home charger (about $500) will charge it from empty to full (0 to 270 miles range) in about 4 hours. And a DC fast charger does empty to 80% charge in about 15-20 minutes.
Why do you people ALWAYS spout incorrect information and NEVER listen to those of us that have direct long term experience? HMMM? JFC.
I bought my level 2 charger for about $200 on Amazon.
The issue for most people will be that you need to have a 240v outlet available. It was very easy for me to install one in my garage because my breaker panel was already right there, but I know many people don't have a garage.
I'm just thinking about all of my rental properties, and none of them have the panel anywhere near the driveway. It would be costly for those because I would have to pay someone to bury a wire or run one through the attic to the other side of the house. Some older homes also don't have an available space left in the panel for another breaker.
I've moved my family across the U.S., twice. Each time, I drove a loaded car (with rooftop cargo, bike rack, etc.) about 1,000 miles a day for three days, in all sorts of weather.
In 15 years, EV's had better be able to do that, or this plan is not going to succeed. It would be great if EV's could go 1K on a charge; I'd definitely get one. But you can't legislate technical advances and legislatures should stick to more realistic things, like enacting tax incentives for battery research.
I agree that incentives enacted now make a lot more sense than a ban projected to come into effect a decade and a half. I think something like direct penalties for emissions, if that's the point of this coming into effect now for mitigation measures is also fine.
As for moving your family across the US and driving about 1,000 miles a day per day for three days with a fully loaded vehicle. Well, you can do that now for at least the lower 48 in some EVs. You can't do it on a single charge though, but pretty much no ICE vehicles do 1,000 miles fully loaded on one tank of gas and presumably your trip included some stops for eating, bathroom breaks, and sleeping overnight. The issue with the highest range EVs which peak a bit above 400 miles of EPA-rated range is that they're generally expensive and on the luxury side of things which will remain the case for the next few years, but covre
I agree that incentives enacted now make a lot more sense than a ban projected to come into effect a decade and a half. I think something like direct penalties for emissions, if that's the point of this coming into effect now for mitigation measures is also fine.
As for moving your family across the US and driving about 1,000 miles a day per day for three days with a fully loaded vehicle. Well, you can do that now for at least the lower 48 in some EVs. You can't do it on a single charge though, but pretty much no ICE vehicles do 1,000 miles fully loaded on one tank of gas and presumably your trip included some stops for eating, bathroom breaks, and sleeping overnight. The issue with the highest range EVs which peak a bit above 400 miles of EPA-rated range is that they're generally expensive and on the luxury side of things which will remain the case for the next few years, but covre
Probably 500 miles range and 20 minutes to get 80% will be the tipping point where people view EV's as practical for cross-country travel. 1000 miles range and everyone will just get an EV; it will be no contest. Depending on price, of course.
Probably 500 miles range and 20 minutes to get 80% will be the tipping point where people view EV's as practical for cross-country travel. 1000 miles range and everyone will just get an EV; it will be no contest. Depending on price, of course.
Lucid Air and probably some version of the Model S have a good chance of hitting those marks some time this year, but it'll be at least several years before you start seeing non-luxury vehicles hit or exceed that kind of mark. I think the tipping point (as in you're seeing an obvious acceleration curve) is going to be when an at least 300 mile range vehicle EV with a 20 minute to 80% fast charge time has even a slightly lower initial purchase price than ICE vehicles in same market segment. I'm judging that a bit based on how incentive systems affected demand in other countries. Norway is the oddest one and reached majority new vehicle sales being full EVs for 2020 and hit that for a monthly basis in the year before. They did this by adjusting prices so that the usual premium that EVs have in price actually ended up with EVs being slightly cheaper than ICE vehicles for the same market segment and that was for a period of time where the median EV range is closer to 200 miles.
I honestly don't think 1000 miles of range is going to be that attractive of an offer even when it's pretty cheap to do so--not because it can't be done, but more that it would just seem excessive or unnecessary for most people so most automakers won't cater to it. I can see that by default happening to some vehicles using for towing in regards to their range when not towing though.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-17-2021 at 07:45 AM..
Good point; let's specify 500 miles in sub-zero weather with the heater blasting, or in 90+ summer with AC blasting.
Heat does cause range loss, as resistive heat takes a lot of juice. That's why I preheat while plugged in, then use the seat heater and steering wheel heater when driving to maximize cold weather range (my Bolt stands at 270 miles in 0 degree F weather doing that). AC doesn't seem to be an issue, as my Bolt sees 336 miles in 100 degree weather with the AC set to 70 degrees.
For MOST people, day to day use will be fine with the modern crop of EVs.
I bought my level 2 charger for about $200 on Amazon.
The issue for most people will be that you need to have a 240v outlet available. It was very easy for me to install one in my garage because my breaker panel was already right there, but I know many people don't have a garage.
I'm just thinking about all of my rental properties, and none of them have the panel anywhere near the driveway. It would be costly for those because I would have to pay someone to bury a wire or run one through the attic to the other side of the house. Some older homes also don't have an available space left in the panel for another breaker.
Yeah, I was talking about $500 installed. Mine was $700 installed (and then I got a $700 rebate check from the electric company) but that was because my charger at the time was $400.
And the wiring was run from the electrical panel at the back of the basement in the house all the way to the front of the garage on the outside of the garage. I do have a 200 amp panel, but that's because I upgraded from a 100 amp panel in my 1932 house back in 2007 (had nothing to do with electric cars, I just wanted more panel space and I was installing a hot tub out back and a large air compressor in the garage). It's just a good idea to do that anyway, though.
That 500 mile dream range is in ideal weather only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
Good point; let's specify 500 miles in sub-zero weather with the heater blasting, or in 90+ summer with AC blasting.
Or maybe future EV's will come with small fireplaces built-in. Throw a few logs in the trunk for your next trip....
Yea, a 500 mile EPA rated range will probably be for decent conditions. You'll probably need even higher rated EPA range to effectively get 500 miles in more difficult weather conditions. The Lucid Air supposedly coming out this year tested to an EPA range rating of 517 miles and the Model S Plaid is targeting a 520 mile range. Is that enough of a buffer to get 500 miles for less ideal weather conditions? Eh, maybe, we'll have to see. Of course, the vast majority of people will not be able to afford either vehicle and it'll take at least several years for specs like that to go downmarket.
A few things to note is that the sub-zero weather with heater blasting is going to be a much higher energy drain than the 90+ summer with AC blasting both in terms of effect on the battery power consumption and in comparison to ICE vehicles. The latter is due to the fact that while the alternator powering the AC for an ICE vehicle is going to be about as bad as a drain for an ICE vehicle as for an EV drawing power from the battery, in very cold climates ICE vehicles can draw from the waste heat from the inefficiency of combustion to help heat the cabin. EVs being more efficient don't have that waste heat to use to anywhere near the same extent, so not only is getting the cabin to a comfortable 70 or so degrees from below 0 is much more energetically tasking than a lowering the temperature from 90+ degrees to 70 just due to physics alone, but an EV will have a harder time than an ICE vehicle when it comes to heating because it doesn't have that massive amount of waste heat to draw from.
As for what future EVs have for heat, that's actually something that's been being worked on extensively. Basically, it seems like EV automakers are increasingly including heat pumps which are very efficient and both the Model 3 and Model Y among many other EVs now use heat pumps and it's likely they'll become be the standard for EVs. The Lucid Air is using one. I'm guessing a revamped Model S would also include one.
Another thing to mention is that for your example of a cross-country trip with limited pit stops, the inclement weather probably won't end up having a very large effect for the longer range vehicles you'll need for that trip. The reasons for that are pretty simple. The amount of energy to heat or to cool a cabin of a certain size doesn't change with how large of a battery pack your vehicle has so a vehicle with a very large battery pack will use a lower percentage of the power stored to heat or cool the cabin compared to one with a smaller battery pack. The other factor is that long road trips with limited, relatively short stops where you're plugged in to charge means that you're usually using wall power to get the vehicles to a certain ideal temperature (which is the most energy-intensive part of that process) while you're drawing from the battery to simply maintain that temperature. It's a lot of very short trips with no access to charging that really eat it when it comes to the temperature seriously eating into range.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-17-2021 at 12:28 PM..
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