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Apple charges $1400 for an average phone and 2k for an average computer they pay their servants in India sometimes bear minimum wages. If they get involved they won't get cheaper. I remember before they started making phones, I could get one for $200 and that was extreme.
Right, Apple kept on with the premium pricing though I'm curious as to how you arrived at $1400 for the average Apple phone (do you have a link to that?). I suspect more than a few automakers will stay with being premium brands even as they transition to EVs. Also, what India servants of Apple are you talking about? Almost none of Apple's iPhone production or design occurs in India. A lot of design happens in California, and the majority of its production happens in China and parts of East and Southeast Asia. There's a long supply chain for the iPhone and its components, but India is basically a non-player in that except as a consumer: https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-th...e-made-1999503
You can get a smartphone for under $200 now (such as this: https://www.amazon.com/Moto-Unlocked.../dp/B086H4C8CX) and its specs will be better than Apple's top of the line phone from a decade ago which would have been the iPhone 4 released with a base price of $599 USD unlocked which after adjusting for inflation would be $710.95 in 2020 dollars
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-14-2021 at 12:41 PM..
Right, Apple kept on with the premium pricing though I'm curious as to how you arrived at $1400 for the average Apple phone (do you have a link to that?). I suspect more than a few automakers will stay with being premium brands even as they transition to EVs. Also, what India servants of Apple are you talking about? Almost none of Apple's iPhone production or design occurs in India. A lot of design happens in California, and the majority of its production happens in China and parts of East and Southeast Asia. There's a long supply chain for the iPhone and its components, but India is basically a non-player in that except as a consumer: https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-th...e-made-1999503
You can get a smartphone for under $200 now (such as this: https://www.amazon.com/Moto-Unlocked.../dp/B086H4C8CX) and its specs will be better than Apple's top of the line phone from a decade ago which would have been the iPhone 4 released with a base price of $599 USD unlocked which after adjusting for inflation would be $710.95 in 2020 dollars
What? I don't see an insult in there. That $150 phone I posted is not an Apple product. If you're referring to me, well, I'm not really a huge fan of Apple products but don't dislike them either. I do have a hackintosh I built, but generally my devices use open source software (and hardware if possible).
You bring up a good analogy though. Smartphones used to be quite expensive and rare, but quickly overtook the market. That was helped by a premium retailer who stayed in that premium bracket, but soon the basic technologies got much cheaper and the use of smartphones became ubiquitous partly through economies of scale. Now nearly everyone's portable phone is the smartphone variety and the cheapest smartphones that are usable are very inexpensive and it's easy to find cheap used ones as well. This seems to be what will happen with EVs over the course of this decade as they had with smartphones over the course of the late 200s and into the 2010s though more slowly given the average lifespan of vehicles. One interesting commonality is that part of what drove smartphones becoming ubiquitous will be a key driver in what make EVs ubiquitous which is continuing trends in battery improvements.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 01-14-2021 at 03:01 PM..
What? I don't see an insult in there. That $150 phone I posted is not an Apple product. If you're referring to me, well, I'm not really a huge fan of Apple products but don't dislike them either. I do have a hackintosh I built, but generally my devices use open source software (and hardware if possible).
You bring up a good analogy though. Smartphones used to be quite expensive and rare, but quickly overtook the market. That was helped by a premium retailer who stayed in that premium bracket, but soon the basic technologies got much cheaper and the use of smartphones became ubiquitous partly through economies of scale. Now nearly everyone's portable phone is the smartphone variety and the cheapest smartphones that are usable are very inexpensive and it's easy to find cheap used ones as well. This seems to be what will happen with EVs over the course of this decade as they had with smartphones over the course of the late 200s and into the 2010s though more slowly given the average lifespan of vehicles. One interesting commonality is that part of what drove smartphones becoming ubiquitous will be a key driver in what make EVs ubiquitous which is continuing trends in battery improvements.
I apologize I misread your message.
I have a lot of disdain for apple. I have reasons I won't get into
The EV fans like to point out that it is cheaper to run.
It won't be after the vehicles make up a large percentage of the vehicle pool. Electricity prices will go up and new taxes will be added to the electric bill.
Oregon was thinking of (or maybe they did it) making the annual registration taxes much higher for the EVs because they are using the highways and not paying the gas taxes that pay for highway maintenance.
Fueling stations are going to have to be expensive. If electric is 10 cents a kilowatt at home, it will be 50 cents a KW at a fueling station, because the infrastructure will be expensive to install and there still must be an employee on site.
Maybe quick charging will be 20 minutes, but not unless you are the only vehicle in line to use the charger. If everyone has an electric vehicle, there will be lines at the charging stations and every car in front of you will be there for at least 20 minutes (and maybe much longer). If you have to wait for 2-3 cars to charge before you can get access to the charger, and then you still need to wait 20 minutes for your own car, it is not going to be quick to refuel.
Maybe quick charging will be 20 minutes, but not unless you are the only vehicle in line to use the charger. If everyone has an electric vehicle, there will be lines at the charging stations and every car in front of you will be there for at least 20 minutes (and maybe much longer). If you have to wait for 2-3 cars to charge before you can get access to the charger, and then you still need to wait 20 minutes for your own car, it is not going to be quick to refuel.
You're still thinking like a gas car owner where you HAVE to go somewhere to refuel. There are already incentives in place for apartments and condos to install chargers (they have most of the infrastructure in place already if they have electricity at the apartment or condo), so it'll only be the minority of people that have a house AND on street parking that will be affected. MOST people will still charge at home. So no, not everybody will be in line at charging stations.
And even with slightly elevated road taxes, the lack of oil changes and other engine related costs will keep EVs cheaper to maintain and when they are at price parity with equivalent gas cars, they will be cheaper to own, as well. My Bolt is the equivalent of a gas GTI in performance and space and layout and at $20-25k, on price parity with the GTI as well. Which means that in comparison with an equivalent gas car, it's cheap to own.
You're still thinking like a gas car owner where you HAVE to go somewhere to refuel. There are already incentives in place for apartments and condos to install chargers (they have most of the infrastructure in place already if they have electricity at the apartment or condo), so it'll only be the minority of people that have a house AND on street parking that will be affected. MOST people will still charge at home. So no, not everybody will be in line at charging stations.
And even with slightly elevated road taxes, the lack of oil changes and other engine related costs will keep EVs cheaper to maintain and when they are at price parity with equivalent gas cars, they will be cheaper to own, as well. My Bolt is the equivalent of a gas GTI in performance and space and layout and at $20-25k, on price parity with the GTI as well. Which means that in comparison with an equivalent gas car, it's cheap to own.
I think the real problem will be when people take a 150 mile trip somewhere, then need to top it off to get home.
I think the real problem will be when people take a 150 mile trip somewhere, then need to top it off to get home.
The median range of a new electric vehicle is about 250 miles, so they wouldn't need to do that. However, they would need to do that if it's a 300 mile roundtrip and there was no charging available at their destination. Regardless, fast charger availability as well as the average max charge rate has been increasing rapidly more so than the average range and it's doubtful that we'll see that coming to a standstill anytime soon. The 2035 target is a very long time. If you took the stats for EVs from even 2015 to now, that 5 year difference is massive, so 15 years is definitely a very different EV fleet average from today. Current EVs available today are competitive in several market segments even without the large federal tax credit available, so EV improvements, most notably battery improvements and availability of public chargers would need to come to almost a standstill for the next 15 years for this to be a problem. That's very unlikely simply because of the number of different pathways in research over the last several years to improve batteries as that's betting that all of them are dead-ends for production.
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