Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Say you start off with a 6,500 pound F-150 Lightening. Not sure what a motor, transmission, drive train, gas tank would add. 1,000 pounds easily. 7,500. Or the other way, start with a 7,000 pound F-250/350 and add 2,000 batter and electric motors. Point being you'd be somewhere in that 7,500 to 9,000 range which is reall heavy.
No the electric F-150 is said to weigh 6500 lb it already has a drivetrain it already has a battery so you don't have to add that extra weight the only way you're adding is for the generator. Which I think you should probably get away with being 800 lb.
I would take the rivian over the cybertruck. The Cybertron could definitely looks cool but need the rivian looks more suited to the things I would use a truck for
What speculation? There's obviously no generator in the front of the vehicle. The vehicle is as it is. You're speculating this is a good idea, but reality actually followed otherwise.
The idea has serious drawbacks both from a design engineering perspective and from a market perspective. A BEV with a large battery trying to accommodate the generator and a reasonable exhaust system (going to the back, behind the occupants) has been avoided by established and new existing automakers. Asking a startup to pack in a fairly different option when they have no natural advantage and would either have to pour in money to make their own engines for this or to purchase and try to adapt it from another supplier is simply more costs in design and production.
It's not speculation that they didn't end up doing it. Rivian's not doing it, Tesla's not doing it, BMW's not doing it--pretty much nobody is doing that in the US now except for the poorly selling reincarnation of the Fisker Karma / Karma Revero which hasn't sold well even for its price bracket and which is supposedly also moving away from the setup. The closest successful ones are in China like the Li Xiang One, but it still gets beaten by its closest BEV and ICE competitors and that's a crossover so not having the frunk still gives it plenty of enclosed, lockable storage space. Altering a long range EV with a large battery for a range extender up in front comes with drawbacks, and it's certainly not easy for a startup that has a disadvantage in terms of access to ICE production they'd need unlike existing automakers which have a large parts bin and tons of experience and resources in ICE development and production.
If it's so very simple and desirable as you state though, great, because since think it's a pretty easy modification and bound to be well-received, then you should make an aftermarket under the hood range extender generator for a long range / large battery pickups. The world's your oyster.
All I was saying is if they added a generator to it they would get rid of limited range. It would probably bring the vehicle to a wider market.
As far as manufacturing it it would be just like a manufacturing everything else.
1. EVs require low friction tires. Put normal tires on them and your range drops by huge amounts. Put high traction tires on them nd it drops even more severely. The Ford Lightening takes only one tire. It is a tire good for only one thing - maximizing driving distance on a freeway or other paved surface. Rivian appears to be essentially the same in that regard. You cannot simply swap tires on a vehicle. If the tires are larger or wider than it was designed for, the tires will not fit.
2. Looks are one of the primary reason that people choose cars. I certainly am not going to drive around in or even park in my driveway a child's toy. If I were to drive a car that looks like a child's toy, I would expect it to be priced accordingly. Premium cars are largely an issue of appearance.
3. It is no secret that Tesla has had ongoing problems producing cars. They have no experience in mass production of anything. Rivian is in the same category. Developing a car is much different than developing and operating a production line. Will people be willing to wait three or five years to get their Rivian? Will they be out of date before they are delivered? (2 million vehicles in 18 years is a pathetic track record. GM produces nearly 7 million cars on ONE year. - that works out to 120 million in 18 years I think)
4. Have you ever owned a pickup? Pickup drivers expect a few things. 1. 300,000 miles or close to it. 2. Most repairs can be done in the field or at least at home, not in a shop.
5. Oh nope you have never owned a pick up. No it is not cut in half. It is reduced some if what you are towing is heavy. Take the Rivian, put six people in it, put 800 pounds of camping gear in the bed and hookup a 2800 pound boat and trailer. Make it winter and windy. Now drive it up to Marquette. You are going to take two or three days to get there in your Rivian. I am going to take six or seven hours and I may not have t stop for gas. If I do, it will take me less than ten minutes.
1. EVs do NOT require low friction tires - not even close to correct. The new Tesla Model S Trimotor does 0-60 in less than 2 seconds - faster than any other car - how are those "low friction tires". I put Pirelli P zeros on my Models S with no noticeable range drop - you must not have much experience with EVs if you think cant use any tires. The Ford lightning specs has 3 different size rims so incorrect to say only one tire - they do not spec the tires but sizes from 18, 20 and 22 show not one tire being used.
2. personal preference is just that - personal - not everyone likes the same thing. Ridiculous to think everyone sees it the same way.
3. Tesla has made about 2 million cars and is on track to make about 1 million this year with 2 new factories coming on line - being unable to meet demand because of factory capacity limits says nothing about inability to make cars. Having a big backlog of pre-orders is not a bad thing. The factory for the Cybertruck production (Austin) has not been finished yet. Where did you get the idea that they are having trouble making cars?
4. Not that it matters but yes I have owned several pickups and used to work in a truck shop - probably know more about them than most about working on trucks. But current pickups have very few major things that the average person can work on outside of superficial stuff like changing out tires, shocks or a few bolt on items. Also fewer things to work on or fix on an EV.
5. Sorry you are wrong - my experience in towing shows mileage drops to about half if towing a heavy load - both with an EV or ICE (2800 pounds is not heavy). Currently tow mostly with SUVs. In my ICE vehicles MPG drops from about 20 mpg to about 10 when towing. I actually own and tow with an EV also - it is the airflow that causes much of the range loss - when I tow my box trailer, lose much more range than the similar flat bed with a vehicle on it - but in general about half. I tow fairly long distance regularly (about once a month) - takes about 6.5 hrs in ICE with normal LA traffic, about 7.5 hrs in EV, that is not 2 or 3 days. BTW - I have 4 trailers and tow pretty regularly.
1. EVs do NOT require low friction tires - not even close to correct. The new Tesla Model S Trimotor does 0-60 in less than 2 seconds - faster than any other car - how are those "low friction tires". I put Pirelli P zeros on my Models S with no noticeable range drop - you must not have much experience with EVs if you think cant use any tires. The Ford lightning specs has 3 different size rims so incorrect to say only one tire - they do not spec the tires but sizes from 18, 20 and 22 show not one tire being used.
2. personal preference is just that - personal - not everyone likes the same thing. Ridiculous to think everyone sees it the same way.
3. Tesla has made about 2 million cars and is on track to make about 1 million this year with 2 new factories coming on line - being unable to meet demand because of factory capacity limits says nothing about inability to make cars. Having a big backlog of pre-orders is not a bad thing. The factory for the Cybertruck production (Austin) has not been finished yet. Where did you get the idea that they are having trouble making cars?
4. Not that it matters but yes I have owned several pickups and used to work in a truck shop - probably know more about them than most about working on trucks. But current pickups have very few major things that the average person can work on outside of superficial stuff like changing out tires, shocks or a few bolt on items. Also fewer things to work on or fix on an EV.
5. Sorry you are wrong - my experience in towing shows mileage drops to about half if towing a heavy load - both with an EV or ICE (2800 pounds is not heavy). Currently tow mostly with SUVs. In my ICE vehicles MPG drops from about 20 mpg to about 10 when towing. I actually own and tow with an EV also - it is the airflow that causes much of the range loss - when I tow my box trailer, lose much more range than the similar flat bed with a vehicle on it - but in general about half. I tow fairly long distance regularly (about once a month) - takes about 6.5 hrs in ICE with normal LA traffic, about 7.5 hrs in EV, that is not 2 or 3 days. BTW - I have 4 trailers and tow pretty regularly.
1. Sorry you are simply wrong here. Do some research.
2. I never said no one would want a truck that looks like a toy. I said kids and hairdressers will love them. I said I would never drive around in a truck that looks like a child's toy. I also said appearance is one of the major factor in selecting a premium vehicle. Both of these things are absolutely true.
3. You clearly do not work in the automotive industry. Tesla's inability to understand mass production is legendary. They are slowly getting there after almost 20 years, but they are still pretty bad at it, especially after 18 years of working on it.
4. You may know a lot about fixing trucks, but you clearly know little about what people can do at home or in the field. That is a common misconceptions of auto techs and some mechanics. It really is not all that complex. Yes you can still rebuild a motor or a transmission at home if you need to. It is getting more difficult as they add more and more computers and other electronics. However you are not going to rewind an electric motor or recondition batteries at home (especially since you cannot even get the battery pack out of the car at home. However the simple fact is, people know how to repair ICE cars. Few people have any knowledge at all about electric. That is why those people who do their own repairs will not bu one. You are correct that people who do not know how to do their own repairs will not care (hairdressers and kids).
5. Something is wrong with your vehicle. I get some drop towing heavy loads but not that much. ICE range drops with each person you add let alone with towing. I can load up my truck with six people, several hundred pounds of camping stuff in the bed and a boat on a trailer and the mileage drops about 5 MPG. If you are driving 80 MPH wile towing that may explain why you are seeing such a difference. You really should not be towing at that speed. Keep it to 65. Some loads 55. (I have not had to go as low as 55, but I do not tow at speeds above 65. It is too dangerous and not worth the added few minutes you save). Of course towing a massive load will cause a 50% loss of MPG, like the trucks that towed our house down the road (in pieces), but that is really unusual. You will not get far with an electric towing 40,000 pounds.
1. Sorry you are simply wrong here. Do some research.
Most EVs come with low rolling resistance tires, but they don't NEED low rolling resistance tires. Tesla performance models do not come with Eco friendly low rolling resistance tires. And this Bolt belongs to a guy I know who autocrosses it and daily drives on the Falken Azensis super sticky max performance summer tires:
Range takes a slight hit (normal range is rated at 238 miles for his 2018 Bolt, but even with these sticky tires, range only drops by about 5-10%. But even with that, you can beat the EPA rating simply by driving a little less aggressively. My 2020 Bolt is rated at 259 miles of range, but I regularly get over 300 miles of range without hypermiling. I could swap to high performance tires and still beat the rated range easily. He is right in this regard and you are not.
Quote:
2. I never said no one would want a truck that looks like a toy. I said kids and hairdressers will love them. I said I would never drive around in a truck that looks like a child's toy. I also said appearance is one of the major factor in selecting a premium vehicle. Both of these things are absolutely true.
Why do you have to be so insulting about a difference of subjective appearance on looks? Saying only kids an hairdressers will love them is a misogynistic, ugly opinion and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Quote:
3. You clearly do not work in the automotive industry. Tesla's inability to understand mass production is legendary. They are slowly getting there after almost 20 years, but they are still pretty bad at it, especially after 18 years of working on it.
2010 to 2021 is not 18 or 20 years. And they have made HUGE strides in production and are pumping out way more cars than their detractors ever thought they would. And the Gigapress promises even more ability to produce the cars faster and better.
Quote:
4. You may know a lot about fixing trucks, but you clearly know little about what people can do at home or in the field. That is a common misconceptions of auto techs and some mechanics. It really is not all that complex. Yes you can still rebuild a motor or a transmission at home if you need to. It is getting more difficult as they add more and more computers and other electronics. However you are not going to rewind an electric motor or recondition batteries at home (especially since you cannot even get the battery pack out of the car at home. However the simple fact is, people know how to repair ICE cars. Few people have any knowledge at all about electric. That is why those people who do their own repairs will not buy one. You are correct that people who do not know how to do their own repairs will not care (hairdressers and kids).
I do my own repairs on my ICE vehicles, and I STILL love my EVs. You keep stating absolutes when you have no clue what other people like or do. And again with the insults calling anyone who doesn't think like you "hairdressers and kids." Why are you like that? Might want to address your built in prejudices and attitudes.
Quote:
5. Something is wrong with your vehicle. I get some drop towing heavy loads but not that much. ICE range drops with each person you add let alone with towing. I can load up my truck with six people, several hundred pounds of camping stuff in the bed and a boat on a trailer and the mileage drops about 5 MPG. If you are driving 80 MPH wile towing that may explain why you are seeing such a difference. You really should not be towing at that speed. Keep it to 65. Some loads 55. (I have not had to go as low as 55, but I do not tow at speeds above 65. It is too dangerous and not worth the added few minutes you save). Of course towing a massive load will cause a 50% loss of MPG, like the trucks that towed our house down the road (in pieces), but that is really unusual. You will not get far with an electric towing 40,000 pounds.
40,000 lbs? No half ton truck is going to tow that, and that's the only EV trucks there are. You're not going to get far in an F150 or a 1500 Silverado towing 40k lbs. What a stupid thing to say. We don't know yet HOW much the range drops when trucks like the Rivian (a midsize truck) or the F150 Lightning are towing as they haven't been out in the real world doing it yet. Ford did base it's range figures on a full bed load, so they are thinking about it. The F150 is their best seller and I doubt they'd release a version of that truck that has an 11,000 lb tow rating but can't actually tow that any distance.
BTW, my 2500 suburban does only get 10 mpg towing my 9500lb travel trailer, and the range definitely drops off from the 14 mpg it gets unloaded. I mean that's a third less range when towing. 8.1 liter truck and it tows like nothing is back there, but it does lose quite a bit of range, and is typical for it's type.
No the electric F-150 is said to weigh 6500 lb it already has a drivetrain it already has a battery so you don't have to add that extra weight the only way you're adding is for the generator. Which I think you should probably get away with being 800 lb.
I don't see adding a big enough generator to tow 12k pounds, transmission, drive shaft, gas tank, gas, exhaust and so on for 800 pounds. The light duty gas engines are pretty maxed out towing 12,000 and that's hauling around a much lighter car. The Coyota 5.0 is somewhere around 450 for the engine, can't see being able to do any towing once the battery is depleted on anything much lighter. The 3.5 is actually heavier.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
