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I think pickup trucks and pony cars are probably the two segments that benefit the most from a frunk since it gives pickup trucks a large enclosed storage area without mucking with a tonneau and for pony cars, those long hoods can make up for what are usually very paltry trunks and perhaps those paltry trunks can then give way for a just tiny bit more backseat space.
There's also a two-part transcontinental off road trip which thus far has included powering an electric chainsaw to get rid of an obstruction and using the four motors and instant torque to help pull a stuck ICE pickup truck in slippery conditions. https://www.motortrend.com/features/...rail-off-road/
ahem, you dont want instant torque in icy conditions. ever hear of wheelslip control? (unique to traction motors, sort of traction control for evs) it works by cutting all that power out. no different from todays ELDs
Dunno about that...the last truck I restored was an 81 F100 with the I6 and an SROD. I towed a 24ft camper with it...you can do that when you built and own the drivetrain.
The best thing about the 5.0 is....it aint a turbo. If you REALLY need to tow over say 6-8000 lbs, get the damn diesel and leave the gas motors alone.
ohhhh, you mean 0-60 wise. truck reasons
remond me to tell you about the weakoboost 3.5 HO that wanted to run my CTS...
I didn't mean 0-60. Don't put words in my mouth to defend you empirically undefendable position. The 3.5 Ecoboost has a much higher and flatter torque curve. So, yeah, truck reasons. Irrational dislike of turbos aside, the 3.5 EB is better suited to truck use than the high-revving Coyote 5.0 - which is why it greatly outsells the 5.0 in the F150, despite costing more.
Regarding a 3.5 EB vs a CTS.........that CTS had better be a CTS-V or you're going to get you butt whooped hard. I owned a 2014 Taurus SHO and a 2011 CTS-V simultaneously for awhile. The V was difficult to launch on anything but a perfect surface, whereas the SHO just shot off the line no matter what. Even though the V would eventually blow past the SHO, it took awhile. Of course, on a VHT prepped dragstrip with the V on drag radials, it would lay waste to the SHO from the get go. With just a canned tune, my SHO runs a 12.8. It will destroy a non-V CTS.
I think the monster hiding in the back of the room is how you’re going to charge it. Electric companies are usually for-profit monopolies, and they’re incredibly greedy.
I used to live in Arizona, and the power companies there have fully achieved “regulatory capture” - they’ve literally elected their own governing board, so they can jack rates whenever they want..
Not quite as blatantly, they’re assumed control in my home state of Michigan, as well.. multiple rate hikes per year, for decades.
Disregarding the state of the national power grid, which is awful - the wattage requirements for even old (and predictable) technology like air conditioning shows the weakness.
I can easily foresee a combination of greedy governments and greedy power companies acting in concert to jack the price of electricity-for-fuel to a level that makes your average electric car owner wish for the days of opec and labor-day gas gouging.
Further - I really think there’s a huge subset of the population that does not understand in the slightest “how the other side lives”.. I bought my (old) Chevy pickup 10+ years ago, for $3k - your new (whatever) has a resale value of $0.00 if there isn’t someone to buy it when you’re done with it. At 100,000+ miles, and with the battery pack at the end of the warranty, who is going to peel out, what $12,000 in cash for something that has a huge repair bill coming? The Prius is an excellent example- there’s lots of them, and they were comparatively affordable... at “battery pack time”. they’re pretty much salvage vehicles - the current weirdness in pricing excepted..
Further - I really think there’s a huge subset of the population that does not understand in the slightest “how the other side lives”.. I bought my (old) Chevy pickup 10+ years ago, for $3k - your new (whatever) has a resale value of $0.00 if there isn’t someone to buy it when you’re done with it. At 100,000+ miles, and with the battery pack at the end of the warranty, who is going to peel out, what $12,000 in cash for something that has a huge repair bill coming? The Prius is an excellent example- there’s lots of them, and they were comparatively affordable... at “battery pack time”. they’re pretty much salvage vehicles - the current weirdness in pricing excepted..
At "battery pack time" they are no different than an ICE car...that's a car that's more than likely due for a head gasket or new transmission, both of which cost roughly what it costs to replace the battery.
At "battery pack time" they are no different than an ICE car...that's a car that's more than likely due for a head gasket or new transmission, both of which cost roughly what it costs to replace the battery.
They last 200K miles or more, routinely.
Swapping a used pack on Model 3 is $16,000. That's roughly half the capacity of the Rivian so if that's any indication, around $25-30k would be ballpark for what a swap would cost on a Rivian for a used pack. Might cost that much for a Lamborghini or somethin but normal cars rebuilt transmissions cost nowhere near $25,000. Head gaskets just no, not at all.
Hopefully some underbody protection on a Rivian considering it's marketed as an off-road vehicle, but I'd be pretty nervous about it given the weight. With all the fires it also makes me really nervous. Last thing we need is some Rivian smoldering on the Rubicon after puncturing a pack on some rocks.
At "battery pack time" they are no different than an ICE car...that's a car that's more than likely due for a head gasket or new transmission, both of which cost roughly what it costs to replace the battery.
They last 200K miles or more, routinely.
Not necessarily.
You'd be surprised what you can pick up a used transmission for, or even a used engine with regards to older (10+ years) vehicles that are depreciated out and readily available.
$500 and a weekend in the garage for the average blue-collar shade-tree and they can have that junker running again. Even a head gasket job isn't exactly the hardest thing to do with some mechanical skills, which most people who drive end-of-life vehicles tend to possess out of necessity. When you are driving a $5K car, you don't exactly have the money to go spend $2K at the dealer, so you make due with what you can do. I spent a lot of weekends with buddies swapping $300 engines into their 10-15 year old Camry's and Taurus to keep them going.
I give it another 10 years or so to see if this sort of back-yard shadetree mechanical work can be done by your average wrench. We wont be able to see if this is the case until there is a $5K used EV market that is widespread. Obviously this doesn't exist now, so the brunt of EV's are owned by folks who contract out their repairs. I don't see the cost of new batteries coming down anytime soon though.
EV's are still a vehicle for the well-to-do right now.
You'd be surprised what you can pick up a used transmission for, or even a used engine with regards to older (10+ years) vehicles that are depreciated out and readily available.
$500 and a weekend in the garage for the average blue-collar shade-tree and they can have that junker running again. Even a head gasket job isn't exactly the hardest thing to do with some mechanical skills, which most people who drive end-of-life vehicles tend to possess out of necessity. When you are driving a $5K car, you don't exactly have the money to go spend $2K at the dealer, so you make due with what you can do.
I give it another 10 years or so to see if this sort of back-yard shadetree mechanical work can be done by your average wrench. We wont be able to see if this is the case until there is a $5K used EV market that is widespread. Obviously this doesn't exist now, so the brunt of EV's are owned by folks who contract out their repairs. I don't see the cost of new batteries coming down anytime soon though.
Uncle retired as an indie mechanic and rebuilt/isolated Prius batteries for a few years to the point he opened up another shop again as it become too much to run out of home garage. Maybe in a different part of the country, but ritzy coastal California you can't have four or five Priuses in your driveway in the typical suburban neighborhood on any given day. Neighbors put up with it for a time but eventually complained.
Refurbishing EV packs though isn't as basic as engines though. The cottage industry is just doing what my uncle was doing, isolating bad cells and cannibalizing packs. I the cell/module can't be isolated, they can replace modules in a pack with other used modules from a similar pack. There's really not much market for say taking an old battery pack, however, and repacking it with new cells. It's just too costly.
I didn't mean 0-60. Don't put words in my mouth to defend you empirically undefendable position. The 3.5 Ecoboost has a much higher and flatter torque curve. So, yeah, truck reasons. Irrational dislike of turbos aside, the 3.5 EB is better suited to truck use than the high-revving Coyote 5.0 - which is why it greatly outsells the 5.0 in the F150, despite costing more.
Regarding a 3.5 EB vs a CTS.........that CTS had better be a CTS-V or you're going to get you butt whooped hard. I owned a 2014 Taurus SHO and a 2011 CTS-V simultaneously for awhile. The V was difficult to launch on anything but a perfect surface, whereas the SHO just shot off the line no matter what. Even though the V would eventually blow past the SHO, it took awhile. Of course, on a VHT prepped dragstrip with the V on drag radials, it would lay waste to the SHO from the get go. With just a canned tune, my SHO runs a 12.8. It will destroy a non-V CTS.
oh ok ok ok, I get it, you dont know or understand trucks. that is ok, very few do. But many own them as you pointed out.
Remember the part where I said the *last* truck I restored....(implies more than one!) was a 122hp ford I6, the 300. I restored it bone stock. (that the next owner put on all the go fast parts I got for him is irrelevant) but the meat of the tale is: I towed a 24ft camper (appx 4000lb) and it was fine. It has just under 1/4th the hp of the 3.5HO, yet gets the job done. If the 'truck' crowd didnt have such small non-working pee pees, we would not have these discussions.
The 1979 F350SRW Crew had a 157hp 351 and a C6 and it towed, factory, 10K off the rear end. Just fine. I made 4 times what I paid for that one.
The Mark IV suburban right <---- over there 25 feet makes 405-410ft of torque. At less than 1800rpm. stock. Meaning it is already towing with minimal fuss and WEAR, before the EB starts moving. ITs already 31 years old. the EB wont make 20 in any rusty form.
Having towed longer than you have been alive, I will ALWAYS take displacement when towing or trucking. Either a) my peep pee aint small or b) I know what I am doing or c) all of the above.
To make or beat the 5.0 numbers, the 3.5 - any version has to be deep into boost. That is wear, that is stress and the fact that at present Ford is doing warranty bottom ends on a disturbing number of 2.7 and 3.5 engines is distressing. the numbers are almost small yes, and they are covering them yes, but this is ford. Used to be you got a ford truck engine that stayed running until you pulled it out of the shot frame and you put it somewhere else. Heck, my 90 F150 5.0 motor went over a quarter mill in 21 years before it went into someones mustang. As a long time ford fan, I am deeply disappointed. I stick with my recommendation. (plus when towing mid size loads, eco boost owners are griping on all venues about 9-11mpg. As I reply "Gee, my suburban can do that....")
Now since you asked, the ecoboost owners have some sort of chip on their shoulder. they see a car NOT called V or Hell...and they want to sidle up to it. I dont street race in town and never off the line, the DI motor needs so many rpm it sucks off the line. So here we are late winter, dry, 40's out, night, brand new F150 3.5EBHO with all the "Im hotter than you" stickers all over it, rt 9 in WV between MTB and Charlie town. I was on my way in, he just got on the road, jockeyed around will the last stop light at it went from 45-65 so it was a 40mph roll on lets say. Sure, the truck jumped as the CTS makes its power with the 3.6DI up high and shifted a few gears in the world class 6L50, that lasted for 5 feet. Id say since he only had the 10spd, both feet were planted. By 45-50 speeds equal. by 60 the CTS was inching forward a door panel at a time. by 80 in front with passing room - at this point , wind resistance mattered and the F150, well, was a mower shed and the CTS was a 4 door camaro. Since wind resistance increase with the square of speed, we was losing what 10hp per mph? we kept going, gotta admire his determination. around 104mph the ford did something funny and shut off its injectors. rev limiter, on all ford trucks and now apparently its tamper proof, there is defensive code in there that if the limiter is missing or changed from a hard code, it goes into limp home. But I digress, the CTS DI is limited by god to 153-155mph depending on who tested it on what day. Its just outta gas. no limiter as the tires are proper ratings - factory. But I shut her down at 125 (a speed quite north of the rev limiter in your SHO) still charging fairly hard and got off the short road exit to my hotel. he did to and gave the proper 'you got me' wave (its a race thing...)
why did this go down when on paper....? well for your money, and the new caddy image, *ALL* versions of the ATS and CTS are track ready. Not just the V. All. Some are ready for bigger tracks obviously. But even the lowly turbo 4 is ready. NO version of the F150 was ever track ready. In fact, with the messed up aerodynamics of a truck, going anywhere near 100mph is asking for it to swap out, straight line, on a highway. People used to do things like take off the tailgate and install nets (mee too) but it didnt help.
Now, the last part, we were talking another posters decision on truck engine choice and I think I have shown why it is preferred but we are hearing about the taurus SHO? really?
if you want to run a boosted taurus against a CTS then can I have the v sport models? first it was a TT3.0 then a TT3.6 and either lay the SHO - all years - to waste in any situation. V8 need not apply. In fact, this winter I was going to put a stage 1 super charger on my 3.6DI which gives 400hp and mid 12s, could go the stage 2 which is only $500 more and touches 11's but alas, I am trading the car in tuesday... (for about what I paid for it, aint covid great?)
*no* models of the SHO were ever track ready (well some say the first gen yam 3.0 24v was but that was a different world) the car runs quick fer sure up to its 120mph rev limiter. Which it has cuz simply because it is too long, too wide, too tall, too high to be allowed to venture any higher with any kind of liability ford is willing to accept. Gripe at them, not me. I understand the last 2 years had the tamper proof programming in them as well...
But anyways, its too heavy, too tall and too high a center gravity, has a much worse weight distribution, has messed up shift points to cater to soccer moms and the stability control has no sport mode (and geez oh man how can you stay in those crap seats over 60mph??? might as well be a bench seat LTD) if you were to go to say lime rock TODAY, in this drizzle with me and run a couple hot laps,(we are both AWD) YOU WILL DIE. Not the same game. Not the same sport. Get a mustang (the real one not the suv) and check back in. Moral: leave moms car in the garage.
Ps: you prolly should have not taken the folks V out if they did in fact have one. too rare and valuable a machine. In capable hands, the gen 2 set a record at the 'ring on street shoes so forcefully, that BMW went home and built a special model of the M just to get it back. That is caddy panache and is wasted street racing. Any ATS/CTS owner can drive up to the rock or glen or even willow springs and run in class all day with bmws and audis and mas. The sho, cannot. Unless of course, YOU WANT TO DIE.
At "battery pack time" they are no different than an ICE car...that's a car that's more than likely due for a head gasket or new transmission, both of which cost roughly what it costs to replace the battery.
They last 200K miles or more, routinely.
whose EVs are now hitting 200K miles? mebbe someone who got one and drove it nonstop for 5 years to make a point, but IIRC the population average is under 20K....all years all models. more like they are afraid to mile them
and how much are these battery packs?
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