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For most sport car drivers the handling and engine sound it is what really matters, not straight line speed in a family sedan.
Small 4 cyls are not the most audibly beautiful of engine notes. So a small light EV sports car woudl still be more fun than a larger sedan even if the sedan is faster.
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Back to subject, Toyota is a proven winner for many years, I would not bet against them.
Well, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, Toyota changed CEOs and the new on is much more pro-EV and so that's the direction they are headed now.
the only one worth keeping. cuz in no amount of years will the others be capable of fetching a quarter mil for a mildly preserved one. plus, its the coolest.
He’ll keep them all for sure but even he admits that electric is the future.
As I said earlier, hydrogen doesn’t provide any convenience to the end user. Electric does no matter how hard the naysayers try to deny it. As range increases, that convenience factor will only get even better.
I can’t see a hydrogen car convincing me to go back to the old system of fueling outside of my home. I’m confident most EV owners would agree.
There’s a reason for the term “die hard”. We’re seeing the early stages of it now for the adamant ICE’ers.
I don’t fault them for sticking to their guns, I’m the same way with old school D&D. They need to recognize, as I do, that we’ve been left behind in our respective stubbornness.
No such thing as a Dodge investor. It's owned by Fiat, you might invest in that. Dodge to Fiat is close to worthless. They can take risks with it. They have to take risks with it. It's been slated for being the next Plymouth since they spun the RAM of into its own brand.
To the other point Fiat says they'll make an electric Dodge in 2924. Don't count chickens before they hatch. Toyota made an EV in 2022.
Actually, the company is Stellantis - it is the 4th largest car manufacturer with over 1.5M vehicles sold last year. The company consists of 14 brands - Abarth (Fiats in US); Citroen; DS Automobiles; Lancia; Opel; Peugeot; Vauxhall overseas - Chrysler; Dodge; Jeep and Ram from what used to be Chrysler as well as Alfa Romeo; Fiat and Maserati in the US and overseas. Interestingly, according to true car, the average selling price of a Stellantis in the US was over $55K - much higher than most other manufactures.
Stellantis market cap is 46 B Euros as of today - hardly worthless. That is just behind GM and Ford and just ahead of Honda. They already build many EVs - being just behind VW and ahead of Tesla in the European market with over 200K EVs sold last year.
Unless there’s something about the technology that I’m missing, it’s going to be very hard to get people to go back to a system that requires fueling somewhere other than home since clearly EV saturation is ramping up and the “apartment problem” will likely be solved before fuel cell cars appear in any big numbers.
Aviation and industrial machinery are the perfect market for fuel cells. Personal vehicles are the perfect market for EV. Maybe hydrogen pickups if somehow we never solve the towing issue with EV (except they certainly will).
Fuel cells do not require batteries. Do not use lithium. Do not require electricity which is already in short supply. There is no charging time. They run on hydrogen which is incredibly abundant, but there is no collection and distribution system available at this time. Some of them can be powered by natural gas, but not for vehicle use. You need pure hydrogen (right now). Fuel cells produce electricity, water, and oxygen. So, they technically improve the environment.
Toyota has already produced fuel-cell cars. There are some buses in Chicago that ran on fuel cells, not sure whether they are still in use. Toyota is betting that technology will resolve the fuel cell practicality issues before the EV practicality issues get resolved. They are kind of betting the company on it. Toyota has a lot of really smart people with a lot of technical knowledge, so they are not charging into this blindly. If they turn out to be correct, they will win bigly. If they are wrong, then they lose. They can always catch up on EVs though. The technology is readily available and they are already proficient at mass production of vehicles (unless tesla and other newcomers). I do nto think ti woudl be hard for them to switch over if it became necessary.
Fuel cells do not require batteries. Do not use lithium. Do not require electricity which is already in short supply. There is no charging time. They run on hydrogen which is incredibly abundant, but there is no collection and distribution system available at this time. Some of them can be powered by natural gas, but not for vehicle use. You need pure hydrogen (right now). Fuel cells produce electricity, water, and oxygen. So, they technically improve the environment.
Toyota has already produced fuel-cell cars. There are some buses in Chicago that ran on fuel cells, not sure whether they are still in use. Toyota is betting that technology will resolve the fuel cell practicality issues before the EV practicality issues get resolved. They are kind of betting the company on it. Toyota has a lot of really smart people with a lot of technical knowledge, so they are not charging into this blindly. If they turn out to be correct, they will win bigly. If they are wrong, then they lose. They can always catch up on EVs though. The technology is readily available and they are already proficient at mass production of vehicles (unless tesla and other newcomers). I do nto think ti woudl be hard for them to switch over if it became necessary.
Here's the basic deal...
Hydrogen takes more energy to create to use in fuel cells than you get out of it by far. It's more efficient to use that energy directly in a battery. Hydrogen is the smallest atom, so it requires ultra high pressures (10,000 psi) for storage and fueling (you really want some soccer mom on her cell phone to be refueling at an older station with a 10,000 psi pump?). As the smallest atom, it can easily escape though most materials, (requiring expensive, custom storage tanks and transport systems). It can cause a thing called hydrogen embrittlement with a lot of metals. And it's HIGHLY flammable. Makes a gas car look like a paragon of safety in comparison. If a static charge can ignite gasoline fumes at a gas station, then think about what it would do at a hydrogen station.
Hydrogen has been 10 yeas in to the future for a few decades, with a LOT of money behind it, especially in Japan where the government has promoted it heavily. And STILL it is barely usable there and not at all here (as you noted, there is almost NO hydrogen delivery infrastructure in place. There is, however electricity infrastructure almost everywhere. If you have an outlet, you have infrastructure for electric power.
I used to be a big proponent of the hydrogen future back in the '90s. But the problems it had then haven't been overcome in 30 years of dedicated work. Hydrogen fuel cell cars ARE EVs with hydrogen as the storage medium instead of a battery. But the battery is more efficient, safer and less costly to set up an infrastructure for. Sorry.
Fuel cells do not require batteries. Do not use lithium. Do not require electricity which is already in short supply. There is no charging time. They run on hydrogen which is incredibly abundant, but there is no collection and distribution system available at this time. Some of them can be powered by natural gas, but not for vehicle use. You need pure hydrogen (right now). Fuel cells produce electricity, water, and oxygen. So, they technically improve the environment.
Toyota has already produced fuel-cell cars. There are some buses in Chicago that ran on fuel cells, not sure whether they are still in use. Toyota is betting that technology will resolve the fuel cell practicality issues before the EV practicality issues get resolved. They are kind of betting the company on it. Toyota has a lot of really smart people with a lot of technical knowledge, so they are not charging into this blindly. If they turn out to be correct, they will win bigly. If they are wrong, then they lose. They can always catch up on EVs though. The technology is readily available and they are already proficient at mass production of vehicles (unless tesla and other newcomers). I do nto think ti woudl be hard for them to switch over if it became necessary.
Who said electricity is in short supply? According to the DOE reports, there is enough current and planned capacity for all vehicles to be electric even in the most aggressive move to EVs.
Currently most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuel and much of the rest using electricity - it is not completely clean in producing.
Who said electricity is in short supply? According to the DOE reports, there is enough current and planned capacity for all vehicles to be electric even in the most aggressive move to EVs.
Currently most hydrogen is produced from fossil fuel and much of the rest using electricity - it is not completely clean in producing.
This is the same DOE run by Jen Granholm - perhaps more inept than trans-sec mayor pete. THAT DOE?
The one that acknowledges that EVERY CONUS state warned of rolling blackouts last summer and most had? THAT DOE?
Every single capacity document they they publish at present is completely made up.
This recent statement here:
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California and the Midwest face 'high risk' of electricity shortages in next five years. The electricity grid is being pushed to the breaking point and California, parts of the Midwest and parts of the South Central United States are at “high risk” for energy shortfalls.
is repeated just about everywhere. THIS particular cut and paste came from CNBC so it would not be dismissed with a 'fox wave'. (in fact, didnt one of the states - CA - order people to NOT charge EVs last summer? (yes) ) From Sept of 2022 in the new york times
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LOS ANGELES — Heading into one of the busiest holiday travel weekends in the United States, and just a week after approving a bold plan to ban the sale of new gasoline cars, California asked electric vehicle owners this week to limit when they plugged in to charge.
The California Independent System Operator, which manages the state’s power grid, sent a Flex Alert asking all residents to voluntarily reduce their electricity use between 4 p.m. and 9 p.m. on Wednesday and Thursday and warned that more alerts were possible through the Labor Day weekend.
we are not Ukraine or Bratwurstslovakia and what used to be a Cali ONLY problem, is now widespead. Ergo.......
so to answer your question of 'who say electricity is in short supply', the answer clearly is: everyone. ESPECIALLY the consumers (and of course CISO)
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