The lost people of Fern Forest (Volcano, Pahoa: crime, public school, to live)

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mangodog

Hey, they need to generate income to justify the Dept.

Just to be clear, Traffic Control is the only part of police work that generates a positive cash flow, so you should never be surprised when they take their work seriously. They are helping to support the whole rest of the Po-po Department!

[mangodog]

I know it may sound like I am over reacting just a bit - but the earth worms have come back and I am so stoked ! It means that the soil is not totally pesticidediddonedecimatedintodestruction.

I was just tilling the soil with a spade the other day and I am so grateful. Selah. I hope everyone else is as fortunate as me.

[mangodog]

OK, these two areas are separated by approximately 12 miles of Highway. The land prices in Volcano are substantially more than Mt View. The climate is not that much different. Throw in a little more asphalt and the sticker shock is amazing.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mangodog

OK, these two areas are separated by approximately 12 miles of Highway. The land prices in Volcano are substantially more than Mt View. The climate is not that much different. Throw in a little more asphalt and the sticker shock is amazing.

Yes, and no, both to the prices and to the surprise. There's a lot of very reasonably priced property in Volcano if you dig for it. For instance, there's a nice little 1 BR house within walking distance of the PO, a store, a restaurant and a cafe, $169K, been on the market 4 months or so. Next door to a $1.25 mil house, so the neighborhood is ok. Coupla nice 2 or 3 BR houses in my neighborhood for under $250K. And I know of a nice lot for sale, $15K... not listed anywhere except for the note pinned to the bulletin board at the community center.

The last is a big part of the reason for the difference in average prices... there is a real community in Volcano. Has been since the mid 1800s. The old mattress factory building from 1895 is still standing. The old Inn from the days of Mark Twain's famous visit is now a gorgeous art gallery. The Volcano area, according to an architectural survey, has the highest density of historical buildings in the state. The Keakealani Elementary school was built in 1914... and is now planned to reopen as a charter school, and the Old Japanese School is still standing and has been used recently as a dance studio and art school. To name just a few...

And the village has a very high density of professional artists today, along with galleries and a very active Art Center. And a very active Cooper Community Center with all kinds of classes and dinners and activities and a great Farmers market. I've met people there who come up from Mountain View to participate at Cooper Center because there are not such activities down there.

And the village has a very high density of wealthy people from old families who have been coming here for vacations or have been residents for many years. That nice but "modest by today's standards" house opposite the Volcano Store? The King of Hawai'i once stayed there while visiting the volcano, and the present owner is 5th generation. People here like that kinda thing.

Neighborhood Watch is active, and neighbors really do look out for neighbors here. Volcano is a friendly community.

Versus Mountain View, which seems to me to be a place to drive through to get to Hilo. No offense meant, just tellin' it like I see it.

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Just to be clear, Traffic Control is the only part of police work that generates a positive cash flow, so you should never be surprised when they take their work seriously. They are helping to support the whole rest of the Po-po Department!

Incorrect.
All of the money collected by Hawaii County goes to the state and the court system. The Hawaii County PD gets no money from fines for speeding, etc.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

Incorrect.
All of the money collected by Hawaii County goes to the state and the court system. The Hawaii County PD gets no money from fines for speeding, etc.

Read it again. Traffic Control is the only part of Police Work that generates positive cash flow. That means it generates more income than it costs. How that money flows was not the topic.

Please find someone else to stalk now. Mahalo.

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Read it again. Traffic Control is the only part of Police Work that generates positive cash flow. That means it generates more income than it costs. How that money flows was not the topic.

Please find someone else to stalk now. Mahalo.

Traffic control in Hawaii does not generate more money than it takes to run the traffic control program. It is a money loser. Contact the Hawaii County PD and ask. Contact the court system and inquire as to how many people get the fines reduced to almost zero, because they are "poor".

Your continuous posting of ambiguous things taken out of wikipedia and other dubious sources means that people call you out on it. BS in, BS out.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

Your continuous posting of ambiguous things taken out of wikipedia and other dubious sources means that people call you out on it. BS in, BS out.

Calling something bull**** because you don't know it is childish.
Calling something bull**** because you don't understand it is idiotic.

I wrote an article about this phenomenon about ten years ago, that traffic police generate positive cash flow, and it was not news then... just something a lot of people didn't realize. They were saying that instead of police handing out traffic tickets, they should be chasing criminals, and I showed how traffic cops were doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, and in fact were more than paying their own way. Rather than dig out my old article on the subject, I'll refer you to the 1999 FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin called - "Police enforcement of traffic laws: a cost-benefit analysis", one of many references which support what I said... Police enforcement of traffic laws: a cost-benefit analysis | FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The | Find Articles at BNET

This bulletin addressed your objection, that the money doesn't go directly back into PD coffers. A dozen years ago.

Finally, repeating your same lie over and over that I get my material from Wikipedia, with absolutely no evidence of what you're saying, is wrong minded and abusive, and I will consider it a personal attack and report you for it if you don't stop. You're messing with my livelihood and my personal reputation for integrity. Stop it.

[mangodog]

Not long ago I was driving down the Hawaiian Beltway underneath the beautiful night sky and had to take a wicked whiz real bad. I am assured that none of you have ever had to do this. I pulled over to a quiet wooded location and parked the car and turned off the lights and ran into the bushes about 15 feet from the parked car. Big Mistake. When I came out of the bushes I was greeted by a blue light. I fumbled with some excuse for stopping and was questioned and embarrassed. (Of course it is my own damn fault- guilty as charged ! )
They actually let me go but my pride was shamed. I guess I will have to train myself to pee into a bottle while sitting down in the car seat - next time, but that ain't easy !

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Calling something bull**** because you don't know it is childish.
Calling something bull**** because you don't understand it is idiotic.

I wrote an article about this phenomenon about ten years ago, that traffic police generate positive cash flow, and it was not news then... just something a lot of people didn't realize. They were saying that instead of police handing out traffic tickets, they should be chasing criminals, and I showed how traffic cops were doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, and in fact were more than paying their own way. Rather than dig out my old article on the subject, I'll refer you to the 1999 FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin called - "Police enforcement of traffic laws: a cost-benefit analysis", one of many references which support what I said... Police enforcement of traffic laws: a cost-benefit analysis | FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The | Find Articles at BNET

This bulletin addressed your objection, that the money doesn't go directly back into PD coffers. A dozen years ago.

Finally, repeating your same lie over and over that I get my material from Wikipedia, with absolutely no evidence of what you're saying, is wrong minded and abusive, and I will consider it a personal attack and report you for it if you don't stop. You're messing with my livelihood and my personal reputation for integrity. Stop it.

Stop it. Stop it..

Sorry, but that "study" is flawed as it uses data from a large city (Spokane) in which all officers are expected to produce a minimum of 10 citations per day. In Hawaii County, only the traffic control officers are require to write citations and there are only a handful of them, per shift, for the entire county. The "study" also tries to take into account various unknown factors such as reduced accidents. I was discussing actual revenue vs costs, for Hawaii County, where traffic control loses money because not only is less revenue produced, but the money goes to the state - and the County funds the police here.

The police in Hawaii County have made mention of this before.