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You continually speak authoritatively about education and schools even though you are not a teacher. If I were to describe law enforcement, based upon what I learned from BLM, you would be calling me on it.
Perhaps I'm "out of date of lesson plans", whatever that is, but I know a hell of a lot more about education than you do (or your source of misinformation). 38 years in the classroom yet somehow you know more about the job than I do?
Many people on this forum have given you good advice. You reject most of it. One thing you have demonstrated clearly is that you are an expert on just about everything. (Also no offense. )
I never claimed to be an expert in education or anything for that matter, but topics can be researched where a general understanding Of the topic can be had. Some things are just common sense that doesn’t require a level of expertise. For instance, it’s common sense to know a lesson plan handed to a student is not as effective as a teacher teaching that lesson to you. That is what was told to us by my wife’s friend at her school. The same goes it doesn’t take a LE officer to know the officer kneeling on George Floyd’s neck for over 8 minutes isn’t proper police procedure.
I’m not denying there hasn’t been good advice given. Some can be appliee, some can not. Like for instance, subbing. When schools open back up, she’ll be put on a sub list to sub to get her foot in the door.
And that is why Hawaii has among the worst education system in America. The reading and math proficiency is disgusting throughout every public school here and has the worst teacher shortage in the nation. I told my wife she change her resume to make herself look less qualified. Tongue in cheek.
I think that's part of the reason. But I also think this reason is overplayed. The teachers matter, but so does the kind of student that the schools get to begin with. All of this is to say that if all of the children at private schools were sent to public schools in Hawaii, the public school statistics would increase over night and I don't think that the prior-private school kids would be any worse off as they'd still have access to competitive classes (I assume that Hawaii has AP or bacc classes/curriculum in its public schools) and I'd imagine still score well on standardized tests. But many of the kids who go to private schools also have parents who are formally educated in a good way and impart some of their knowledge (via enrichment activities, etc.) on them from a very early age. Hell, even if they didn't have access to these advanced courses, they'd probably still be fine. I went to public school and, while I did take AP classes starting in junior year, I really wasn't doing much more mental work in the AP courses than I did in the other courses. I think the main difference was that everyone in the AP classes was there to learn and weren't interested in screwing around and disrupting classes.
Note, I still don't like how certain things are. I feel that a qualified teacher shouldn't be given the runaround, though I'd also like to hear all sides of the story. Of course, while I may not like it (and a similar situation was true to an extent when I lived in New Orleans, where the place one went to high school could matter in terms of proving ties to the region and getting jobs), I would learn how to deal within the system if I wanted to gain employment. In short, I'd play the game that was expected of me if I wanted to get a certain job. Thankfully, when I live in Hawaii it is in my military status, so I'm not competing for jobs with locals.
I think that's part of the reason. But I also think this reason is overplayed. The teachers matter, but so does the kind of student that the schools get to begin with. All of this is to say that if all of the children at private schools were sent to public schools in Hawaii, the public school statistics would increase over night and I don't think that the prior-private school kids would be any worse off as they'd still have access to competitive classes (I assume that Hawaii has AP or bacc classes/curriculum in its public schools) and I'd imagine still score well on standardized tests. But many of the kids who go to private schools also have parents who are formally educated in a good way and impart some of their knowledge (via enrichment activities, etc.) on them from a very early age. Hell, even if they didn't have access to these advanced courses, they'd probably still be fine. I went to public school and, while I did take AP classes starting in junior year, I really wasn't doing much more mental work in the AP courses than I did in the other courses. I think the main difference was that everyone in the AP classes was there to learn and weren't interested in screwing around and disrupting classes.
Note, I still don't like how certain things are. I feel that a qualified teacher shouldn't be given the runaround, though I'd also like to hear all sides of the story. Of course, while I may not like it (and a similar situation was true to an extent when I lived in New Orleans, where the place one went to high school could matter in terms of proving ties to the region and getting jobs), I would learn how to deal within the system if I wanted to gain employment. In short, I'd play the game that was expected of me if I wanted to get a certain job. Thankfully, when I live in Hawaii it is in my military status, so I'm not competing for jobs with locals.
I will agree that it isn’t always on the school. For instance, some think states that rank high in their education system is all do the performance of those schools. A lot has to do with parents having high expectations of their children and their future. Education doesn’t end at 3pm. If you live in a place where many of the parents could care less how well their children perform in school, it will have an affect on the school itself.
I could only give our side of the story and what we have experienced except for two of the schools she interviewed with. Outside of that, it’s just our best guess. I don’t believe she interviewed bad for the remainder of the three schools, but anything is possible.
I think that's part of the reason. But I also think this reason is overplayed. The teachers matter, but so does the kind of student that the schools get to begin with. All of this is to say that if all of the children at private schools were sent to public schools in Hawaii, the public school statistics would increase over night and I don't think that the prior-private school kids would be any worse off as they'd still have access to competitive classes (I assume that Hawaii has AP or bacc classes/curriculum in its public schools) and I'd imagine still score well on standardized tests. But many of the kids who go to private schools also have parents who are formally educated in a good way and impart some of their knowledge (via enrichment activities, etc.) on them from a very early age. Hell, even if they didn't have access to these advanced courses, they'd probably still be fine. I went to public school and, while I did take AP classes starting in junior year, I really wasn't doing much more mental work in the AP courses than I did in the other courses. I think the main difference was that everyone in the AP classes was there to learn and weren't interested in screwing around and disrupting classes.
Great post! I agree with all that you've said. I attended public school from kindergarten through University of California, Santa Barbara. Parental expectations are the key to success.
In the last several decades, politicians have tried to convince us that every child needs to go to college. It's not only not true, it's not even possible. No matter how much we might wish for everyone to be (equally) intelligent, it is not something that can be legislated. In addition, we need mechanics, plumbers, electricians, and other tradespeople.
Here in Hawaii, there is a limited demand for people with degrees while blue-collar jobs are plentiful. Many parents worry that their children will move away to the mainland if they possess degrees. Hence, they don't push their kids very hard in school.
Great post! I agree with all that you've said. I attended public school from kindergarten through University of California, Santa Barbara. Parental expectations are the key to success.
In the last several decades, politicians have tried to convince us that every child needs to go to college. It's not only not true, it's not even possible. No matter how much we might wish for everyone to be (equally) intelligent, it is not something that can be legislated. In addition, we need mechanics, plumbers, electricians, and other tradespeople.
Here in Hawaii, there is a limited demand for people with degrees while blue-collar jobs are plentiful. Many parents worry that their children will move away to the mainland if they possess degrees. Hence, they don't push their kids very hard in school.
As outrageous as this may sound to some, I could easily see it being true in a place like Hawaii where family plays a particularly big role in my experience and where the islands are so far removed from the rest of the United States.
If you move away from Hawaii, you are cutting ties with your family (even with the advent of fast video conferencing, etc.) in a way that there is no mainland comparison, especially as you start to build your own family and it becomes more expensive and simply less feasible to travel back and forth to Hawaii to visit relatives on the islands. Still, I wonder how much of this is intentional vs. parents just not having the basic knowledge (or are simply too busy with work) to give their children adequate academic enrichment before school age and during the school years
"But if you were only going to pay teachers about $50,000 a year you get what you pay for."
Is this $50k a year for 3 months off in the summer, a two-week winter break, a week-long spring break and 10 other paid holidays a year? Plus tenure and a 80% retirement/100% health benefit?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm wondering if this is $50k per 11.5 months of work (assuming comparison to typical 2 weeks of paid vacation in private sector) and no pension, or $50k for 8-9 months of work and all the public bennies?
My sister works in the education system in a blue state, has for a few decades. Her salary is pretty low, but she gets it 12 months a year even though she doesn't work that many, so she is happy with it. More importantly, she enjoys her work.
"But if you were only going to pay teachers about $50,000 a year you get what you pay for."
Is this $50k a year for 3 months off in the summer, a two-week winter break, a week-long spring break and 10 other paid holidays a year? Plus tenure and a 80% retirement/100% health benefit?
$50K as a 10 month employee (August thru May).
One also needs to keep in mind the 8% contribution of gross pay into the retirement fund - and medical deductions are high, they don't get low premiums mandated by law for private sector employees.
"But if you were only going to pay teachers about $50,000 a year you get what you pay for."
Is this $50k a year for 3 months off in the summer, a two-week winter break, a week-long spring break and 10 other paid holidays a year? Plus tenure and a 80% retirement/100% health benefit?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm wondering if this is $50k per 11.5 months of work (assuming comparison to typical 2 weeks of paid vacation in private sector) and no pension, or $50k for 8-9 months of work and all the public bennies?
My sister works in the education system in a blue state, has for a few decades. Her salary is pretty low, but she gets it 12 months a year even though she doesn't work that many, so she is happy with it. More importantly, she enjoys her work.
Every teacher critic begins their diatribe with "3 months off in the summer". That hasn't been the case in at least 40 years, yet it is regularly quoted as a "fact". Typically, summer break is not more than 2 months anywhere in the U.S. The Federal DOE requires a minimum of 180 school days, per year, nationwide.
Tenure is a "maybe" depending where you are, and few teachers retire at 80%. (In California at 2% credit per year, a teacher would have to work 40 years to earn 80%.) Since 75% of teachers are women and most take time off for child raising, 40% retirement is far more common than 80%.
Health benefits for teachers are typically good, but rarely 100%. They are also a part of collective bargaining and are often maintained in lieu of salary increases. Relatively few teachers get lifetime medical. Many older teacher do not even qualify for Medicare. (I had to work a second job to qualify.) Other teachers I know became Uber drivers post-retirement. One had a paper route and two more became gardeners to qualify for Medicare.
Critics often say: "Why don't they get another job during the summer?" Many do but it's hard to find anything that pays more than minimum wage when you are only available for two months. Due to continuing education requirements, many also do teacher-training in the summer.
One final thought: If teaching is such a great gig, why is there a growing nation-wide shortage of teachers?
YMMV
Last edited by Futuremauian; 09-15-2020 at 03:44 PM..
My husband was a teacher for many years. He loved what he did, so no complaining. Firstly, teachers do not work a 9 to 5 job. Almost every night he was grading tests, preparing for the next day, etc. Plus he worked extra curricular coaching teams that went to (and won) math competitions at the state and national level. And he was in charge of the chess club. I'm sure I've forgotten half of what he did, but he was super busy every night.
Summers off? Not. He did all the scheduling for the K-8 school he worked for, plus he was very involved with training new teachers as head of the math department. And he did tutoring.
We were fortunate that he worked for a good school district in Colorado, and we were able to retire in his late 60s and move to Hawaii.
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