Why won't Bostonians look you in the eyes? (living, moving to)
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I have never seen this topic and I have lived on the West Coast, MidWest, and two East Coast locations. This is the only place I have noticed it.
You must not read craigslist then! It's a cyclical topic of discussion there, on every board I've read. And it's always men complaining that "people" won't make eye contact or return a friendly hello. To give you the Cliff's Notes version, women usually explain that we get tired of being told to "smile," asked our names, etc., etc., when we're just trying to get to work, school, whatever, and the best way to avoid that is to avoid eye contact.
Since you didn't trust my San Francisco Yelp example, I picked a random CL board (Seattle's) and searched for "eye contact." Sure enough, there's a post on the Rants & Raves board right now on this subject.
Quote:
Subject: Eye contact (Seattle)
So I moved to this city this summer thinking such friendly people live here (you know, what with the city being ranked high up there in terms of certain lifestyle indicators and all).
But instead I find that no one even makes eye contact while passing each other out on the streets. Why is that?
Now I am not a social butterfly that can easily meet people and make new friends, but I do feel that catching each others' eyes on the street can be a way to meet someone.
Not to brag, but I am a guy that is easy on the eye and I see many other good looking guys on the street. But no one even looks at me. How come? Are people pretending to be busy and purposely avoiding eye contact, or are the standards of beauty so high here in Seattle such as to reduce me to an ugly duckling?
I have never seen this topic and I have lived on the West Coast, MidWest, and two East Coast locations. This is the only place I have noticed it.
I read that SF Yelp link. A few things immediately come to mind. The poster mentions that people will not hold eye contact for more than a 1/10th of a second. This suggests that they did, in fact, initaially look in your direction. My observation when I made this thread was that people around wouldn't even do that. They didn't look away, mind you, they looked dead-on straight ahead as if they were in a trance or something. I thought it was weird. I still do, but I have since stopped caring.
A few people in that Yelp thread also point out that there is a difference between making eye contact and staring; another point I made to which some respondents in the Boston thread do not seem to understand.
My observations with Boston were not just in regards to the women or snooty New Englanders.
Okay, I get it. In Boston culture everyone is too busy to stop and say hi. Even if by stopping and saying just means a basic acknowledgement with the eyes. In Boston culture, everyone already has enough friends and are not in the market for any new ones. In Boston culture, looking someone in the eye (that you do not know) is considered a threat/challenge at least or that you want to get into the person's pants at most.
That is all fine and dandy. As I stated in this thread a few times already, I just made an observation and asked a question. I am not attempting to change the status quo nor do I care to do so. I am the new one here who is from a different state/region/culture. Just don't assume that I am a creep or want to jump your bones if you catch me glancing in your general direction and I will assume you don't want anything to do with me.
It seems like many places in America its this way. People have their friends and many act like they don't wanna be bothered with someone they never seen before. Its not just a Boston problem and I learned this once leaving the state too. People are just as lousy everywhere.
I have never seen this topic and I have lived on the West Coast, MidWest, and two East Coast locations. This is the only place I have noticed it.
I read that SF Yelp link. A few things immediately come to mind. The poster mentions that people will not hold eye contact for more than a 1/10th of a second. This suggests that they did, in fact, initaially look in your direction. My observation when I made this thread was that people around wouldn't even do that. They didn't look away, mind you, they looked dead-on straight ahead as if they were in a trance or something. I thought it was weird. I still do, but I have since stopped caring.
A few people in that Yelp thread also point out that there is a difference between making eye contact and staring; another point I made to which some respondents in the Boston thread do not seem to understand.
My observations with Boston were not just in regards to the women or snooty New Englanders.
Okay, I get it. In Boston culture everyone is too busy to stop and say hi. Even if by stopping and saying just means a basic acknowledgement with the eyes. In Boston culture, everyone already has enough friends and are not in the market for any new ones. In Boston culture, looking someone in the eye (that you do not know) is considered a threat/challenge at least or that you want to get into the person's pants at most.
That is all fine and dandy. As I stated in this thread a few times already, I just made an observation and asked a question. I am not attempting to change the status quo nor do I care to do so. I am the new one here who is from a different state/region/culture. Just don't assume that I am a creep or want to jump your bones if you catch me glancing in your general direction and I will assume you don't want anything to do with me.
Obviously you aren't as good looking or as appealing as you think you are since you are so bothered that no one you encounter on the Boston streets is interested in becoming your friend at random. Be realistic, unless you are some recognizable celebrity, no one anyone is going to approach you wanting your autograph or trying to be your new friend.
And from many threads in relationship forums, most men say that they aren't interested at all in becoming a platonic friend to a woman. Why? Because most men and women don't have any common hobbies or interests in common to talk about. If a man is friendly to a woman, it's because he wants sex or a romance.
And what is your definition of a real friend? Isn't any best friend that you've ever had been a guy with similar interests, hobbies and background? Most longtime best friends are people that you grew up with or went to school with. Or met through mutual friends, or worked with. And probably, you shared a passion for the same sports team, or music, or cars. And even then, sometimes if the personal chemistry isn't there, a close friendship still doesn't develop. So... how can you think that just with a long look in the eyes and a smile with a complete stranger, that person shares any of your same interests or opinions?
If any of you guys (or gals) are in a new location and looking to make friends, get out there and do come different activities (like join meetup.com) or volunteer work. Just by doing group activities like an amateur sports team is a great first step in making new friends.
Anyway, you men are totally nuts if you are hoping to make friends with random women on a city street. And I also bet that you guys are only hoping to make friends with the young and pretty women you see, not the plain or overweight ones.
I have never seen this topic and I have lived on the West Coast, MidWest, and two East Coast locations. This is the only place I have noticed it.
It's a frequent topic on Northern Virginia's forum. It seems many newcomers to Northern Virginia are from the South and Midwest, and the social avoidance habits of passers-by unnerves them. In NOVA, it's characterized as cold or arrogant. Goes hand-in-hand with newcomers complaining the locals are all full-of-themselves Type-A's.
I like to acknowledge people I walk by in my immediate neighborhood, but in rail stations, or walking downtown, or shopping, am I saying hi to everyone I pass or trying to establish eye contact? No.
You must not read craigslist then! It's a cyclical topic of discussion there, on every board I've read. And it's always men complaining that "people" won't make eye contact or return a friendly hello. To give you the Cliff's Notes version, women usually explain that we get tired of being told to "smile," asked our names, etc., etc., when we're just trying to get to work, school, whatever, and the best way to avoid that is to avoid eye contact.
Since you didn't trust my San Francisco Yelp example, I picked a random CL board (Seattle's) and searched for "eye contact." Sure enough, there's a post on the Rants & Raves board right now on this subject.
Nope, I do not read Craigslist Rants and Raves. I checked it out a few years ago when a friend told me about some type of top R&R list that I found pretty humorous. So I checked out R&R a few times and found it to be dull, boring, and generally full of trash talking (This was while I was still in Maine. Most of the topics/comments seemed to be geared towards tourists or you know, how people from Mass are jerks).
Sigh. I understand your example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
Obviously you aren't as good looking or as appealing as you think you are since you are so bothered that no one you encounter on the Boston streets is interested in becoming your friend at random. Be realistic, unless you are some recognizable celebrity, no one anyone is going to approach you wanting your autograph or trying to be your new friend.
Not sure if this is sarcasm or an honest opinion, but I don't go walking around thinking I am hot sh*t or the cat's meow. But yes, I do think I am good looking and I would surmise that past GFs have thought the same, too.
My only real point of contention with the quote of yours is that you are assuming that a) I am bothered by this situation b) I am only out to make friends (and by an early post of yours: to find a GF and/or just get laid).
As I have stated previously; I found it to be odd behavior (just like some of you seem to find my behavior odd and/or creepy). So instead of just making an assumption that all locals truly are the stuck-up as**oles that everyone else in the country believes them to be, I figured I would pose the question here and get the answer straight from the "locals".
I am not offended by it. I just thought it was weird upon arrival. Why that is such a hard concept to digest is beyond me. I do not have an ulterior motive. I do not want to change the status quo. I have since met people and have a group that I would consider to be friends (although not-so ironically, they are all from out-of-state). I made an observation, so I asked a question. Nothing more, nothing less.
But sheesh, if I had known that this was such an over-blown topic, I would have just kept my trap shut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
And from many threads in relationship forums, most men say that they aren't interested at all in becoming a platonic friend to a woman. Why? Because most men and women don't have any common hobbies or interests in common to talk about. If a man is friendly to a woman, it's because he wants sex or a romance.
Most men does not mean all men, and most men do not cruise relationship forums. Most men that I know really appreciate their platonic friendships with females and wish that more such relationships were possible.
What!?! Men and women have plenty in common.
If a man is friendly to woman, it could mean that he wants sex, or it could mean that is just being cordial. And their is also the possibility of everything in between. If you assume that every guy who says hi to you only has one thing on his mind than that says more about you than anything.
Anyone can have sex. Perhaps not as often as they'd like, but it is something that is relatively easy to come by. Friendships hold far more value than a quick wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am.
Oh, and most guys who cruise relationship forums are desperate, not the norm. And in case you are wondering, I generally only respond to threads in the Relationship forum on CD because honestly, posters give bad advice (OP: Oh, my husband is abusive, and has been for years. What should I do?
Typical response: Get marriage consoling and work it out. )
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
And what is your definition of a real friend? Isn't any best friend that you've ever had been a guy with similar interests, hobbies and background? Most longtime best friends are people that you grew up with or went to school with. Or met through mutual friends, or worked with. And probably, you shared a passion for the same sports team, or music, or cars. And even then, sometimes if the personal chemistry isn't there, a close friendship still doesn't develop. So... how can you think that just with a long look in the eyes and a smile with a complete stranger, that person shares any of your same interests or opinions?
My definition of a real friend is someone that I share a common bond with; generally nonjudgmental and supportive (but not afraid to offer a disagreement); and so on and so forth. Some of my best friends are those that I grew up with, went to school with. But many more are people that I met later in life.
One of my best friends in the World happens to be a woman who I met after high school. Yeah, there were some romantic inclinations in the beginning that never came to fruition for one reason or another. We have long since moved passed that and she is the closest thing I have to a sister.
I agree with your comment on how people become friends, but I want to offer once again that the whole point of my OP was not figure out a back door into befriending Bostonians (Bostonites?) or how to get laid by meeting someone on the street.
I also believe that I made it clear that there is a difference between a casual meeting of the eyes and staring someone down. Staring is creepy, a casual glance is just recognition that you are there. No harm, no foul.
I should go back over my posts here, but I am sure that I never mentioned anything about smiling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
If any of you guys (or gals) are in a new location and looking to make friends, get out there and do come different activities (like join meetup.com) or volunteer work. Just by doing group activities like an amateur sports team is a great first step in making new friends.
Good advice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
Anyway, you men are totally nuts if you are hoping to make friends with random women on a city street. And I also bet that you guys are only hoping to make friends with the young and pretty women you see, not the plain or overweight ones.
Like I said, I am not interested in befriending random women I see on the street. In fact, I don't even care to talk to them, let alone smile. There is obviously some confusion over my intentions with the OP. Hopefully this is the last time I will state this: I made an observation, so I asked a question. If I was interested in meeting new people (whether the random stranger on the street or otherwise), I would have included that in the OP.
On a side note: if you read my posts in the Relationships Forum, you will notice that I have no aversion to the plain or overweight "ones".
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbobobbo
I like to acknowledge people I walk by in my immediate neighborhood, but in rail stations, or walking downtown, or shopping, am I saying hi to everyone I pass or trying to establish eye contact? No.
This is a fascinating topic. I live in Florida in Sarasota and we have a good number of New Englanders who either live here or visit in the winter. It's strange to be walking down the sidewalk in a residential neighborhood and saying hello to the person passing you in the other direction and having them avoid eye contact and not even acknowledge you in return. It's not like I look threatening - I'm wearing a t shirt, shorts, flip flops, and walking a small dog.
At first I thought these individuals were rude. Now that I know that they are exhibiting a learned behavior, it doesn't bother me anymore. Too bad they can't let go of the big city and slow down for the time they are here.
I like to acknowledge people I walk by in my immediate neighborhood, but in rail stations, or walking downtown, or shopping, am I saying hi to everyone I pass or trying to establish eye contact? No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Luv
I agree. I am the same way.
Keep in mind that in a typical major city, the sidewalks are really quite congested at all times of day and at night. So unless you are a tourist or someone on their day off, there's really no time to acknowledge every single person coming your way on the streets. And if I am lost in my own thoughts about my busy day while I am walking around the city, then I will tune out the people and distractions around me. So really, most of us just have no time and not the energy to acknowledge everyone coming our way on the streets with even an eye to eye contact. And it'd be rather rude to be selective and decide to make eye contact with a select few people... don't ya think?
Keep in mind that in a typical major city, the sidewalks are really quite congested at all times of day and at night.
Miu makes an excellent point.
The original poster was asking about Boston in particular. Boston, because it's an old city, has very narrow sidewalks.
This forces people to pass quite close to each other, and in an attempt to maintain personal etiquette, people don't look you in the eye. Eye contact at that close distance can be threatening or rude.
As you move farther south and west, the sidewalks are wider, and it's perceptually "safer" to look people in the eye, because you're not as close to them, physically.
Not only is it a congested city, its is an interwoven, working city. Locals, townies, residences, businesses, colleges, hospitals, tourists, foreigners, and travelers all heavily intertwine in a very dense small area.
I live and work in the city and I am one of the "rude" people. Some people just come to shop. Some tourists just come to absord and gawk. Some people are just trying to get back to work. Visit the sick in the hospital. Some just trying to get home. Trying to make trains, beat traffic, avoid parking tickets. There is a synergy to a congested, intertwined working city and sometimes the lollygaggers and the gawkers get lost in the flow.
But that is more a Boston/urban dynamic than a general New England one. But NE is probably more diverse than people make it seem.
Seriously. I have been doing a lot of walking and I noticed (right away, mind you) that people will not look at your face when they pass you on the street. In fact, they will not even look in my general direction. I know this because I look everyone in the eye and I notice that from 15, maybe 20 feet away, they will stare straight ahead and won't even take a quick glance as they pass.
Now, don't feed me some BS about how Bostonians are busy, in a hurry, or don't feel the need, because it is obviously a cultural thing around here. And it is not just on the street...its on the T, at bars, etc. Non-natives don't seem to do this, so why Bostonians?
I've been all over Europe and some middle east, there is no single place I know where ppl look you in the eyes on the street.
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today nobody looks you in the eyes
