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It depends on the flow of traffic, for me. When I'm walking around in Boston, it's usually on a populated sidewalk or through the park which is usually bustling with pedestrian traffic. If I were to look at every person I passed, I'd probably totally miss the dog poop I'm stepping in. Or become so distracted with individual people that I'd forget to turn and end up walking into a door or something.
So, I stare straight ahead, and only look up to look -specifically- at someone if they attract my attention for some reason. Like, a girl with blue and yellow dreadlocks. Or a man riding a unicycle. Or a beggar with brand new shoes. I'll *see* everyone I pass. But I'll only look at them, if there's something about them that would warrant me looking. Otherwise, they're just random faces in the crowd, a splash of animated color to my walk.
Boston is not the city of decades ago when most residents had been there for years. When their were actual neighbohoods made up of Irish and Italian residents. A time when people knew each other and it was a neighborly place.
The Boston of today is a commuter city where thousands upon thousands of commuters pour into and out of the city. One of the main sources of Bostons population is students and the young urban professionals that have moved into Boston.
I think that is where one needs to look for the reasons for the lack of eye contact or general unfriendliness people talk about. The majority of the residents in Boston now are not natives to Boston or for that matter Massachusetts. Not all natives of Boston have left the city but the majority moved to the suburbs decades ago. I do not find the area residents nearly as cold and unfriendldy as I see on these forums, at least the people that are actually from Boston or Mass in general.
You want to see cold people that never make eye contact or say hello, unless they want to panhandle you to death. Then move to Portland, Or where I live now.
I've been to Austin several times, and it's not as densely populated per square foot as Boston is.
Otherwise, just go to some rough section of any city and start staring in the eyes of the people there and see how they treat you. Staring is a challenge for humans too. Oh yeah, and go stare at some primates in a zoo also, and see how they like that.
Who said anything about staring? There is a HUGE difference between meeting someone's eyes in a friendly manner walking by and aggressively staring them down. You can't possibly tell me that is the same thing. And, again, we're talking about people. Please stop acting like staring into a strange dog's eyes is the same thing as briefly meeting someone's eyes while walking down the street.
As I'm an animal lover, myself, I don't go to zoos. I think they're cruel.
The ironic thing is that I could really care less about whether someone meets my eyes in a friendly manner or not.
Also, I've also noticed that since having a baby 6 months ago, people (in Boston and elsewhere) are much MUCH friendlier to me than when I didn't have a baby. It's like night & day.
The whole "friendly/unfriendly" thing also hinges on so many factors. If you're male or female, baby in tow, general demeaner, etc...
My husband (who's pretty big) once shaved his head just for the hell of it (thankfully, before I met him). He said people were TERRIFIED of him and rarely met his eyes. Another time, he grew a beard (again, thankfully before I met him) and wore little round glasses, and people treated him with respect and were overly nice to him. Held doors open for him, called him "sir," etc...
In regards to Austin/Chicago/LA vs. Boston... my point was that the size of the city doesn't necessarily mean that people are less friendly. I chose to pick places I've lived or spent extensive time in. I'm pretty sure Houston, Dallas, San Francisco, San Antonio, Las Vegas & Miami are all bigger, denser, & generally friendlier than Boston, too, but since I've only visited them a few times, I chose to leave them out.
Last edited by readymade; 08-16-2010 at 08:11 PM..
Seriously. I have been doing a lot of walking and I noticed (right away, mind you) that people will not look at your face when they pass you on the street. In fact, they will not even look in my general direction. I know this because I look everyone in the eye and I notice that from 15, maybe 20 feet away, they will stare straight ahead and won't even take a quick glance as they pass.
Now, don't feed me some BS about how Bostonians are busy, in a hurry, or don't feel the need, because it is obviously a cultural thing around here. And it is not just on the street...its on the T, at bars, etc. Non-natives don't seem to do this, so why Bostonians?
No idea what you are talking about. I live in Boston and strike up conversations with strangers all the time. I love it here and have no trouble making friends.
When someone is speaking an Eastern European language and appears to be dressed as Euro T, I am going to assume that they are not native, for example. Or if they are obviously from a Latin American country and speaking Spanish.
Besides, I have read numerous times on this forum that if a random stranger gives you the time of day than that is a sign that they are NOT from Boston. I understand there are exceptions, and nothing is ever straight across the board, and I could be wrong, but so far it doesn't seem that way.
Like I said previously, it is just an observation. I am not suggesting that it is wrong, or that Bostonians are kooky. I just plan on living here for a while and am trying to make sense of the situation.
Yup, I did live in Maine. I lived in Portland, and as it turns out, many people who live in Portland are from away. So it is hard to get an accurate description as to who is from Maine and who isn't. I will say this: Some people did seem to go out of their way to avoid you, but in general, more often than not, people would say hi, inquire how you are doing, etc. Some random person walking down the street will say [i]hi[i], you say hi back, followed by how are you doing? They will respond with Good, thank you. How are you?No complaints.Have a nice day.You, too. All the while they won't miss a beat or slow their stride. Just a quick wham bam thank you ma'am.
Mainer's are pretty straight forward and for the most part don't seem to understand the concept of personal space. It is not uncommon for someone to stand so close behind you in line -even you are the only two people waiting in line- that they are breathing down your neck. It is also common for two people to strike up conversation while waiting in line, and then not move until they are done...effectively holding up the line for a few minutes.
They are also straight forward to point of being blunt or intrusive. For example, my GF at the time was up in Bar Harbor at a museum and bought a lobster shaped spoon rest for our stove. She paid with her bank card and the woman behind the counter asked to see her DL. When she showed her her Maine DL, the woman said Why are you buying this? You live here!
Anyways, I just assumed that this was the typical New England/East Coast attitude, so yeah, I would say that Boston's tendency to avoid contact with 'strangers' is unique to Boston. I figured that Boston would be just as in-your-face, straight-forward, and "friendly". Guess I assumed wrong.
Er, okay now that it's a couple of days since I made that post asking whether you had lived in Maine, I get around to noticing that you have Portland listed as your location. Oops.
Anyway, thanks for the answers. It does seem as if some of your observations about obvious non-Bostonians have to do with contrasts between some national cultures and American culture in general, not just Boston's. For example, you mentioned people speaking Spanish, apparently Latin American. It seems that it's part of the culture in a lot of Latin countries, and some southern European countries as well, to be animated and effusively emotional when interacting with other people. I think that Americans in general, not just Bostonians, tend to have more even demeanors than this. It does seem to be true, though, that the typical American demeanor is still friendly, though friendly in an easygoing, even-tempered way, rather than being characterized by a lot of hugs and kisses and elaborate hand gestures.
Thinking about comparisons between American mannerisms and those typical in other countries reminds me of an example of how this friendliness vs. reserved demeanor thing is relative. I used to know a girl from Sweden who at the time had lived in the U.S. for a couple of years, all of that in Boston. She said that she found the people in Boston to be friendlier in everyday interaction than Swedes, but that Bostonians also seemed less inclined toward deep friendships, whereas in Sweden the people were more reserved, did not open up to others readily, but became lifelong true close friends once they did accept someone as a person they wanted to connect to. What that girl said about Swedes vs. Bostonians was exactly what people here often say about Bostonians when compared to people in some other parts of the U.S., such as southern Cal., who are said to have a reputation for superficial friendliness. It's all relative.
Interesting, your portrayal of people in Maine. Personally, I could do without the intrusions into personal space, sense of someone behind me in line standing so close he's breathing down my neck, etc. I'm fine with light conversation while waiting in line, as long as both people fall easily into the conversation, so it's not one person trying to force talk onto another, but I'm guessing that I could get a bit impatient about having the line held up by people too busily engaged in small talk to move ahead and take their turn at the cash register. I really liked the picture I got with what you said in a later post, about how Maine was the one place where you'd had the sense that people were sincerely interested when they greeted others and asked how they were doin'.
I lived in Boston for 11 years and found it jarring that people refused to make eye contact. There's a tightness and coldness to New Englanders that is very unattractive. I currently live in Philly, and the vibe is radically different: it's the City of Brotherly Love. People make a lot of eye contact here, and say hello. It is not intrusive but rather a simple expression of warmth and kindness, a recognition of another human being--a member of the community. It's hardly an imposition; to me, it's a matter of etiquette.
Yeah, it's weird. I grew up in Boston but also lived in Austin & in LA. In Austin & LA, you can make conversation while waiting in line.... or at the grocery store with the person next to you looking at apples, etc... and it's not weird or creepy.
I live in Cambridge and people talk in grocery lines all the time because we're using rolling our eyes at how slow they are!
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Originally Posted by readymade
When you meet someone for the first time, they might give you a hug. People say hi walking down the street..
That is really weird and intrusive. Hugging strangers? WTH? Sorry but that is an invasion of space, and very very phony. BTW I'm friendly and talk to anyone, but hugging strangers is indicative of a person who is needy/impolite/doesn't have an idea of personal space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by readymade
Some call it unfriendly. Some call it reserved. Some call it rude. Some call it minding their own business. It all mostly boils down to the same thing.
And some call it good manners.
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Originally Posted by readymade
It also depends on where you are. I've found that people are much friendlier in Northampton (on par with LA or Austin). Incredibly unfriendly/rude in Malden/Medford. Cranky in Woburn (heh). Reserved in Arlington/Cambridge. Busy in Boston proper.
Camb and Somerville are pretty friendly. Townies are friendlier than blow-ins attending university.
I was discussing this thread with my boyfriend this morning. He had just had an interview and at the start, he had given the interviewer a hard look in the eyes... which was returned in like. lol But it turned out to be a good interview for him.
Anyway, he remembered being with another male friend and walking in a rough neighborhood. While they were very aware of all the people along the sidewalk, they didn't look directly at anyone. Especially the ghetto teens sitting on the stoops who were all ready to do their ghetto hand motions and challenge them with a "hey what you looking at?" And as a woman, I've done the same, and also with ghetto type females. They don't like to be looked at directly, as if they think we are looking down on them or wanting to make fun of them. They all seem happier if outsiders respect their space by not looking at them directly. Which is a submissive animal gesture and posture...
No idea what you are talking about. I live in Boston and strike up conversations with strangers all the time. I love it here and have no trouble making friends.
I have explained myself already, and others have either expanded on what I wrote, or offered an explanation. If you have no idea what I am talking about then these other posters are wrong, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMA
That is really weird and intrusive. Hugging strangers? WTH? Sorry but that is an invasion of space, and very very phony. BTW I'm friendly and talk to anyone, but hugging strangers is indicative of a person who is needy/impolite/doesn't have an idea of personal space.
No, you are getting it wrong. Hugging someone 'for the first time' does not mean going up to some random stranger off the street and meeting them with a hug and hello before the two of you disappear and never see each other again.
It is common for two friends in California to greet each other with a hug, 'bro hug', handshake, etc. when they first encounter each other during the day/evening. It is not a deep, loving, hug either. It is more of a quick hello than anything. Occasionally, you may receive a hug or something similar from a stranger if you are meeting this person for the first time through a mutual, and respected, friend, but it is not the norm and has more to do with the personality of the person and whether or not they are on anti-anxity drugs.
Anyone who randomly hugs you for no reason is either a nut job or on drugs.
With last winter's threat of the H1N2 virus, I recall a new article where the French government was trying to stop the kiss on both cheeks greeting that they commonly do.
Otherwise, that (CA) social thing of the little hug and air kiss (so as to not muss up each others makeup) as a very fake and insincere greeting. Anyone that does that, is just a poseur and social butterfly... but I'm a lifelong New Englander, so what do I know?
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