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What is gatekeeping the suburbs though? If you mean the prices are too high for a rational person to move there unless they make a lot of money then I agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Space_League
It's not a bad thing that BHA provides housing throughout the urban core, but it feeds into another problem. Problem is that pathway from poverty to middle class in this city virtually demands LEAVING THE CITY to get there. Or at least moving to an invisible neighborhood.
When people finally do reach the upper middle or upper class income needed to own a home in the visible parts of the city, the choice is between:
moving back downtown as the token rich black family living among all the rich folks who avoided them before and largely are still wary of you until proven innocent by virtue of your success. On top of that you're living next to the ppl who are still in the projects and maybe assume you think you're better than them for making it out and that you can't relate to them anymore (I can't speak to this part at all but it seems like human nature)
then the other choice is either staying in the suburbs / moving somewhere else altogether now that you are wealthy with plenty of options.
Sorry for not responding earlier, but you kind of sum it up well in your more recent post.
Basically, if everything were fair, racial biases didn't exist, and the "American dream" of economic mobility were alive and well in the Merrimack Valley, you'd expect to see a fairly large community of well-to-do Dominicans in Andover who grew up in Lawrence, pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, got good educations, jobs, etc. and moved to the nearest, most desirable suburb.
However, the fact that only 1/5 of Andover's already small Latin community (5% of the town) is Dominican means that there's probably very little movement from Lawrence into Andover. Either people in Lawrence aren't getting enough opportunities to get rich or those who do make it big choose to move somewhere entirely different.
Sorry for not responding earlier, but you kind of sum it up well in your more recent post.
Basically, if everything were fair, racial biases didn't exist, and the "American dream" of economic mobility were alive and well in the Merrimack Valley, you'd expect to see a fairly large community of well-to-do Dominicans in Andover who grew up in Lawrence, pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, got good educations, jobs, etc. and moved to the nearest, most desirable suburb.
However, the fact that only 1/5 of Andover's already small Latin community (5% of the town) is Dominican means that there's probably very little movement from Lawrence into Andover. Either people in Lawrence aren't getting enough opportunities to get rich or those who do make it big choose to move somewhere entirely different.
I expect that within another generation Andover and North Andover will be a lot more diverse.
Consider that ~45.7% of Lawrence residents are foreign born(from census reporter). >95% of immigrants in the city are coming from Latin America mostly DR.
Nonhispanic whites and blacks together make up about 20% of the population so that would suggest that 50-60% Dominican population in Lawrence is first generation. that figure sounds about right anecdotally
I'm not sure exactly when Dominican immigration to Lawrence started in earnest(80s?), but I do know that it was a tough city well before that. All the mill cities around there were pretty down and out since like the 1950s though Lawrence has been the slowest to improve. Even before that it was a hard life working in the factories with basically no labor laws or regulations. By the time Dominican population got here, Lawrence was already hollowed out and yes it did get worse. Like most other cities, Lawrence was much worse in the 90s than today. The city was also massively corrupt for most of the past 25 years from the police force to the mayor invovled in shady business at the expense of the residents. It's also been a major drug hub for the northeast with corresponding spikes in crime, incarceration(broken families), and self inflicted wounds(od deaths lagged behind the "consumer" cities but eventually they caught up).
So we have mostly new immigrants entering a city with a lot of inertia towards their progress. Little to none of that inertia is race based. We're talking about a group of people who moved and continue to move here willingly and have no history of segregation, red lining or bias against their community. It's not comparable to AA community at all in those aspects.
It's important to note that the city of Lawrence has still improved considerably over the last decade and even the last five years. It just takes time and the Dominican community in MA is fairly new being mostly 1-2 generations old. In another 1-2 generations I would be shocked if we don't see growth of intergenerational wealth and migration into upper class suburbs
^Racial disparities arent going to disappear in anyone's lifetime. Anywhere.
Whats really matters is representation, recreation, integration, visibility, and local attitudes. Simply the music and body language of a place can shift your perception. Thats what can vary from city to city and its what people "feel". I took a white friend of mine from my area in Dorchester to Downtown and he told me "dude, how does it feel to be a visitor in your own city" he was shocked by the demographic change.
In Boston white people are too uncomfortable around black people, but not like outwardly racist. They're just definitely uncomfortable and it shows. They also don't really value anything in regards to black culture the way white people do in other cities. This holds true for local black culture. Just a staggering/shocking obliviousness and indifference. Theyre so very wrapped up in Sweet Caroline, Accents, Trillium and other breweries, TD Garden, Skiing, Boating, Colleges, and Wayfair lol. Maybe there just isn't time in the day to look around at other cultures? I cant speak to it effectively..
Black people cannot afford to buy anything downtown. More so than any city I've been to-because virtually everything is expensive in Central Boston. There are no deals/happy hours/discounts aside from Chinatown and Downtown Crossing, unsurprisingly that's where you the most diverse foot traffic in the city. Our suburbs have excellent , high-quality shopping and dining even to the south and that's where most middle-class black people go-to for shopping/dining (Legacy Place, South Shore Plaza, Quincy, Randolph), not downtown. I honestly took for granted how nice places like South Shore Plaza and Legacy Place are before I moved.
Black people in Boston are understandably very cool/stand-offish/skeptical of anyone white doing anything really. Add to this black neighborhoods only have remained black because they lack efficient public transit, for that reason they remain relatively undesirable and discourage travel to downtown.
So there's not much opportunity for change.
Do you see the current mayor as being able to impact what you speak of here? I think the current marketing campaign is a step in the right direction. Would love to see more of black Boston represented in other parts of downtown outside downtown crossing, theatre district, Chinatown areas. Also would like to encourage more people within the area to the businesses/historical sites in Roxbury/dorchester. What’s interesting is Boston basically being a majority minority city may be entering a time where it doesn’t see a white male mayor again for awhile.
Yea most of the tweets were from people in Massachusetts but I do not recall not seeing any from people in Boston. But then again this was 7 years ago...there were quite a few from New Hampshire, Maine, Connecticut, Florida-but all people who are Bruins fans and probably with legit ties to the Boston area. I think all the tweets have since been deleted so I don't know how many there were.
I will say I think Bruins fans are generally pretty racist. Of all Boston teams, I wouldn't go to a Bruins game because I know that type of person... although I do know 1 or 2 black people who have gone with not incident. Couldn't be me though.
But I don't think those stories in other cities generate the same interest or internet traffic so its hard to objectively compare. There's no value in writing them. No one remembers or cares when these things happen in other cities. Lebron got a racial slur spray-painted on his home in LA and we don't even think about this. Its inconsequential to the image because LA has been represented in many other multicultural ways.
Doc Rivers literally had his home burned to the grown by a known white supremacist group in Texas in the late 1990s. No one even knows.
Agree with this except for for reference to bruins fans as “generally” racist. For whatever reasons hockey has not been a very diverse sport.
Racism is always wrong but in other cities is glossed over and in Boston is national headlines
Do you see the current mayor as being able to impact what you speak of here? I think the current marketing campaign is a step in the right direction. Would love to see more of black Boston represented in other parts of downtown outside downtown crossing, theatre district, Chinatown areas. Also would like to encourage more people within the area to the businesses/historical sites in Roxbury/dorchester. What’s interesting is Boston basically being a majority minority city may be entering a time where it doesn’t see a white male mayor again for awhile.
I'd like to see a citywide program that incentivizes landlords (especially downtown landlords) to lease space to black (and other diverse communities) owned businesses rather than sitting on vacant storefronts for years waiting for the next national bank/pharmacy/cell phone store to sign on. This could be done through a combination of methods, but mostly through subsidies (generated by fees paid by the glut of developers of major projects in the city) and tax breaks for the landlords. The benefit is you facilitate a more diverse business community in places like Downtown, Back Bay, and the Seaport and you then have black-owned businesses in the places where tourists are already visiting. Plus you fill some vacant storefronts. It should be done at the same time you're highlighting the less visible neighborhoods too - not an either/or.
Do you see the current mayor as being able to impact what you speak of here? I think the current marketing campaign is a step in the right direction. Would love to see more of black Boston represented in other parts of downtown outside downtown crossing, theatre district, Chinatown areas. Also would like to encourage more people within the area to the businesses/historical sites in Roxbury/dorchester. What’s interesting is Boston basically being a majority minority city may be entering a time where it doesn’t see a white male mayor again for awhile.
She's already made a big impact nationally. She is all over black media (NewsOne, Black Enterprise, Essence, etc.) and she's been very clear in saying inclusion and representation of ALL Bostonians is one of her priorities. Chances are she wins a full term-but regardless most of the major candidates feels the same way.
She talks a little about that here: https://twitter.com/Kim_Janey/status...04307317321729In fact, at the end of the video she very plainly says "Boston is so much more than a Saturday Night Live clip on television"
That's why All-Inclusive Boston exists.
Her Mayoral Launch video is very much trying to change that perception. I know Roxbury and Roxburyians well. She is essentially the Queen of Roxbury, and she brings that with her into her administration and its visible.
Across the business community, there is a sense of urgency to change Boston's reputation. The Greater Bosotn Chamber of Commerce recently announced it wants 37% of its board members to be people of color by 2026. And is urging its member organizations to do the same.
The Red Sox announced the MLB's first CityConnect Jerseys and used an ad campaign to highlight only black//latino Bostonians from its residential neighborhoods. It's all very intentional.
Most of the city wants a new reputation it will take a lot of sustained leg work. Bosotn was supposed to host the 2020 NAACP conference for the first time since 1983 but had to do so virtually due to the pandemic. It will be hosting it instead in 2023.
As for another white male, I dunno. depend on how the next few years go as a city. The city has been majority-minority for over 20 years now so its not really a new development. But the power of being Irish is really really watered down simply because that voting bloc is small now having been replaced with more progressives, transplants, and tech bros who aren't really into city politics. There are far more black people in high-profile positions in Boston City government than Irish. I would say half the people running for city council ar black and I know one who is Irish. in the GBA they seemed to have moved on to "bigger, better" things and care much more about wealth accumulation in the private sector
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 04-09-2021 at 10:20 AM..
I'd like to see a citywide program that incentivizes landlords (especially downtown landlords) to lease space to black (and other diverse communities) owned businesses rather than sitting on vacant storefronts for years waiting for the next national bank/pharmacy/cell phone store to sign on. This could be done through a combination of methods, but mostly through subsidies (generated by fees paid by the glut of developers of major projects in the city) and tax breaks for the landlords. The benefit is you facilitate a more diverse business community in places like Downtown, Back Bay, and the Seaport and you then have black-owned businesses in the places where tourists are already visiting. Plus you fill some vacant storefronts. It should be done at the same time you're highlighting the less visible neighborhoods too - not an either/or.
100%
If boylston st gets another bank I’m going to lose it
I expect that within another generation Andover and North Andover will be a lot more diverse.
Consider that ~45.7% of Lawrence residents are foreign born(from census reporter). >95% of immigrants in the city are coming from Latin America mostly DR.
Nonhispanic whites and blacks together make up about 20% of the population so that would suggest that 50-60% Dominican population in Lawrence is first generation. that figure sounds about right anecdotally
I'm not sure exactly when Dominican immigration to Lawrence started in earnest(80s?), but I do know that it was a tough city well before that. All the mill cities around there were pretty down and out since like the 1950s though Lawrence has been the slowest to improve. Even before that it was a hard life working in the factories with basically no labor laws or regulations. By the time Dominican population got here, Lawrence was already hollowed out and yes it did get worse. Like most other cities, Lawrence was much worse in the 90s than today. The city was also massively corrupt for most of the past 25 years from the police force to the mayor invovled in shady business at the expense of the residents. It's also been a major drug hub for the northeast with corresponding spikes in crime, incarceration(broken families), and self inflicted wounds(od deaths lagged behind the "consumer" cities but eventually they caught up).
So we have mostly new immigrants entering a city with a lot of inertia towards their progress. Little to none of that inertia is race based. We're talking about a group of people who moved and continue to move here willingly and have no history of segregation, red lining or bias against their community. It's not comparable to AA community at all in those aspects.
It's important to note that the city of Lawrence has still improved considerably over the last decade and even the last five years. It just takes time and the Dominican community in MA is fairly new being mostly 1-2 generations old. In another 1-2 generations I would be shocked if we don't see growth of intergenerational wealth and migration into upper class suburbs
Well I disagree with some of these Dominicans are very much discriminated against and there is massive bias against them/ I certainly don't think well see intergenerational wealth and suburbia. Dominicans ar like and will continue to be like Puerto Ricans in MA. Both have been here -really- since the 1970s. And have made very little progress economically apart from those in the roughest of the rough neighborhoods not living in outright squalor and being illiterate as many of them were until very recently.
Its different than the AA population but the Dominican immigrants are not super skilled and don't have very strong family structures even prior to arriving in MA. Anglophone West Indians tend to do better than them.
Also because Dominicans have this urban culture that is extremely influenced by AA and they often times look AA they arent really seen as or treated the same as say..Mexicans or Central Americans. Also they're descended from hundreds of year of plantation slavery
Well I disagree with some of these Dominicans are very much discriminated against and there is massive bias against them/ I certainly don't think well see intergenerational wealth and suburbia. Dominicans ar like and will continue to be like Puerto Ricans in MA. Both have been here -really- since the 1970s. And have made very little progress economically apart from those in the roughest of the rough neighborhoods not living in outright squalor and being illiterate as many of them were until very recently.
Its different than the AA population but the Dominican immigrants are not super skilled and don't have very strong family structures even prior to arriving in MA. Anglophone West Indians tend to do better than them.
Also because Dominicans have this urban culture that is extremely influenced by AA and they often times look AA they arent really seen as or treated the same as say..Mexicans or Central Americans. Also they're descended from hundreds of year of plantation slavery
Example of being more in line with AA culture than other latinos:
Dominicans are the poorest non-indigenous ethnic group in America. Their population comes in all shades, most neither black nor white. Unlike the Commonwealth Carribean which is solidly Black. How could it be bias that causes West Indian, Bajan, Jamaican, Trinis to earn literally 2x as much as Dominicans?
How is it that antihaitianismo is still a thing IN THE DR and yet in mass and across the US Haitians are doing considerably better than them? No one can say with a straight face that Dominicans are more discriminated against than Haitians either in white, hispanic or AA communities.
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