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Dominicans are the poorest non-indigenous ethnic group in America. Their population comes in all shades, most neither black nor white. Unlike the Commonwealth Carribean which is solidly Black. How could it be bias that causes West Indian, Bajan, Jamaican, Trinis to earn literally 2x as much as Dominicans?
How is it that antihaitianismo is still a thing IN THE DR and yet in mass and across the US Haitians are doing considerably better than them? No one can say with a straight face that Dominicans are more discriminated against than Haitians either in white, hispanic or AA communities.
I feel like your comment isn't a reply to my comment as it doesn't seem particularly related.
But yea Dominicans are very poor-that's my point. And I highly doubt that changes in a generation or two. Are Dominicans more discriminated than Haitians? that seem random...probably not, but in Massachusetts maybe-because they have a much worse reputation statewide.
Dominicans are much more often to be black or black looking than white but they're often a mix. The video I showed you shows Dominicans that look very black, and adopt Black American urban fashions and music styles (except for it being in Spanish)-it is that culture that predominates in a place like Lawrence. Theyre heightened and more prominent "blackness" I think puts them at a disadvantage relative to other Latinos. But overall they're socioeconomic status is aligned with African American and Puerto Ricans not so much Haitians, Africans or even Central Americans. I do not think in a generation you will see Lawrence Dominicans moving into the suburbs in a sizable way (unless you count Methuen). If it were possible Puerto Ricans would have done it
I feel like your comment isn't a reply to my comment as it doesn't seem particularly related.
But yea Dominicans are very poor-that's my point. And I highly doubt that changes in a generation or two. Are Dominicans more discriminated than Haitians? that seem random...probably not, but in Massachusetts maybe-because they have a much worse reputation statewide.
Dominicans are much more often to be black or black looking than white but they're often a mix. The video I showed you shows Dominicans that look very black, and adopt Black American urban fashions and music styles (except for it being in Spanish)-it is that culture that predominates in a place like Lawrence. Theyre heightened and more prominent "blackness" I think puts them at a disadvantage relative to other Latinos. But overall they're socioeconomic status is aligned with African American and Puerto Ricans not so much Haitians, Africans or even Central Americans. I do not think in a generation you will see Lawrence Dominicans moving into the suburbs in a sizable way (unless you count Methuen). If it were possible Puerto Ricans would have done it
It's interesting when you look at the well known musicians to come from Lawrence: Scentifik (AA), Reks (AA), Termanology (PR and looks white) none of them are Dominican. So yeah it's fair to say Lawrence draws a lot from black american urban culture but still has distinct elements. I don't really see how that part is relevant personally since basically all pop culture now is derived from AA urban culture.
My point was that since the community is starting from such a low income point, half the population is 1st generation and the city has one of the youngest median ages in the country so probably many are 2nd generation young kids, it takes time to accumulate wealth. So maybe you are right that it will take longer to see suburban migration.
I just don't see how there is rampant discrimination against Dominicans in MA. They came into a city that lacked industry, became entrenched in a drug market, handful of people got very rich from drugs and funneled the money out of the city or used that money to corrupt the government and steal from their neighbors. All those things slowed down the process but none of them are discrimination. Just because those things happened doesn't mean that it always has to be like that. I think things will continue to get better over time.
It's interesting when you look at the well known musicians to come from Lawrence: Scentifik (AA), Reks (AA), Termanology (PR and looks white) none of them are Dominican. So yeah it's fair to say Lawrence draws a lot from black american urban culture but still has distinct elements. I don't really see how that part is relevant personally since basically all pop culture now is derived from AA urban culture.
My point was that since the community is starting from such a low income point, half the population is 1st generation and the city has one of the youngest median ages in the country so probably many are 2nd generation young kids, it takes time to accumulate wealth. So maybe you are right that it will take longer to see suburban migration.
I just don't see how there is rampant discrimination against Dominicans in MA. They came into a city that lacked industry, became entrenched in a drug market, handful of people got very rich from drugs and funneled the money out of the city or used that money to corrupt the government and steal from their neighbors. All those things slowed down the process but none of them are discrimination. Just because those things happened doesn't mean that it always has to be like that. I think things will continue to get better over time.
Don't forget Krumbsnatcha (AA) the AA culture has been emulated in Lawrence and Dominican American culture for a long time due to their similar experiences to us in the US-its not new or fad, and it's much more prevalent than any other none black culture.
You not “seeing” discrimination is what people said about Black people and discrimination 10 years ago.
How do you think Dominican people are treated in white spaces? when applying for jobs? How are they're names and dialects received? dealing with the police? Etc etc. Especially because you can easily see a Dominican and think they're black. Regardless, this is like saying you don't see the enormous racial disparities in US and particularly in MA. It would be nicer and neaterif it only applied to AAs but that's not how it goes. Dominicans because they're known for poverty drugs and an “urban” culture are made the but of jokes and stereotypes and it likely contributes to their lack of social mobility. How many middle class Dominicans have you ever met? Let alone upper class...
It doesn't have to be the same story as AAs or even black Carribean for it to still be reality. If you think a Dominican faces the same amount of hardships as a Korean American I think you'd be mistaken. There's levels to all of it. Lawrence's demographic composition itself is a great example of the lack of mobility access and ghettoization-fostered over decades.
Don't forget Krumbsnatcha (AA) the AA culture has been emulated in Lawrence and Dominican American culture for a long time due to their similar experiences to us in the US-its not new or fad, and it's much more prevalent than any other none black culture.
You not “seeing” discrimination is what people said about Black people and discrimination 10 years ago.
How do you think Dominican people are treated in white spaces? when applying for jobs? How are they're names and dialects received? dealing with the police? Etc etc. Especially because you can easily see a Dominican and think they're black. Regardless, this is like saying you don't see the enormous racial disparities in US and particularly in MA. It would be nicer and neaterif it only applied to AAs but that's not how it goes. Dominicans because they're known for poverty drugs and an “urban” culture are made the but of jokes and stereotypes and it likely contributes to their lack of social mobility. How many middle class Dominicans have you ever met? Let alone upper class...
It doesn't have to be the same story as AAs or even black Carribean for it to still be reality. If you think a Dominican faces the same amount of hardships as a Korean American I think you'd be mistaken. There's levels to all of it. Lawrence's demographic composition itself is a great example of the lack of mobility access and ghettoization-fostered over decades.
It's clear that Dominican-American face more hardship than Koreans in 2021 America. I'm not convinced that the majority of those hardships are due to discrimination, but maybe it is still a significant factor.
As an aside, the rise of South Korea over the second half of the 20th century is absolutely incredible and perhaps singularly so in modern history. The Japanese occupation of Korea was brutal complete with systematic destruction of Korean culture and identity, forced labor for men, sexual slavery for women, seizure of all economic resources and outputs of Korean industry to fund Japanese war efforts. Pretty much the straight flush imperial fare. This went on until 1945 and quickly followed by Korean war which again had hasrh consequences on the country and permanant dissolution of Korean families based on the arbitrary 38th parallel. Yet somehow over a 60 year period the country managed to come from utter ruin and abject poverty to a wealthy, stable nation with modern infrastructure, healthcare, education, life expectancy and a globally relevant culture. One especially strange thing is that Korea's population more or less continued growing throughout Japanese occupation and the subsequent war, despite millions of casualities. Only now is the population shrinking due to one of the lowest birth rates in the world...
Bakc on topic, it's hard to separate perceptions from my own experiences. There were a lot of Dominicans around my social circles as a teen, which were working class and middle class circles. Some were middle class and a few were well off by our standards, which meant living in a certain neighborhood or living someplace like North Andover. Realistically these folks were probably just barely upper middle class.
In our friend group there wasn't really any distinction between the white kids, Dominican kids, and the handful of kids who had a different ethnicity. For the most part we were living in similar neighborhoods in conditions and experienced similar things. However there are two big caveats here.
One is that some of the Dominican kids we knew did face a lot more problems based on being undocumented. That was basically like a dirty secret that people wouldn't want to talk about but if you got to know someone you would find out how much harder it made things for them just going through life. Imo this isn't discrimination but it's at least something adjacent to it.
The other caveat is that Lawrence still had a certain undeniable reputation everywhere and with everyone in the area. You didn't go to certain parts of Lawrence unless you had a good reason, and you got out as soon as that reason expired. If someone was from Lawrence you didn't trust them until you got to know them (really this applied to anyone but it applied double to people from Lawrence). It didn't matter if they were white either. If anything you would trust the white kid less because it was assumed he must have been extra tough to be a white kid from Lawrence.
If you want to call that anti-Dominican discrimination, then fair enough. The thing is we did know a lot of people from Lawrence since it was right next door and pretty much all of them played up that reputation for being tough. Many played up a reputation for being involved in certain ventures, which was often justified. When people moved from Lawrence to our area, which was fairly common, they often played up those aspects too and put up a certain front which was actually called something like the Lawrence Front and just meant acting tough and not showing any feelings. Most often this would drop after a while and everyone would get along just fine.
The main difference I see between Dominican and AA is the history. The fact alone that the Dominican population came and continues to come to this country willingly creates a world of difference. It's true that Afro-Carribean origin story in the Western Hemisphere is the same story, and that the majority of Dominicans have some amount of African or Indigenous ancestery (many also have European ancestors).
That's a different thing from their voluntary movement here currently and recently. Whatever was done to Dominicans prior to their arrival here was not 'our' discrimination. The destruction of black culture, families and prohibition of education on American plantations was our discrimination. All of the discrimination that the AA community dealt with from 17th century up until the late 20th was not inflicted on Dominicans, even if only for the fact that they weren't here to discriminate against. While discrimination and bias have certainly been alive and well in the last 40 or 50 years, it's nowhere near what it was for those other centuries and the lasting impacts to this day are surely more of a burden than the actual levels of ongoing discrimation.
After thinking it out at length I'm pretty much here:
To say there is no discrimination against Dominicans is wrong. To say a typical Korean American has a harder lot than a typical Dominican American is also wrong but that fact is mostly unrelated to discrimination. To say that the impact of American discrimination and bias on the Dominican American community is comparable to the impact on African American community is, in my opinion, firmly wrong.
That impact on Dominican immigrants is much closer to the impact on Korean immigrants than to AA all things considered. I think the reason Lawrence is troubled and the Dominicans who live there are mostly poor is almost entirely due to reasons unrelated to anti-Dominican discrimination and bias of white Americans.
Space league, Dominicans face racial and ethnic discrimination. No they're history isn't the same as AAs. It's that simple.
Discrimination isn't just about history. I can almost guarantee you white people and Dominican people are not treated equally. I can almost guarantee you 4/5 obstacles African Americans face interpersonally Dominican also face.
Who exactly are you polling? General U.S. population, Northeast, New England, Boston region, urban Boston, Boston city, Boston natives, Boston transplants?
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