Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Where once, when the Russian wall came down, Germans opened their arms to ethnic Germans from the east, they now call them "******* Deutsche." If "******* Deutsche" are treated like that, being white and blonde, you can imagine how it goes with the Turks and other nationalties.
I am sure you want immigrants to speak French and English and I'm pretty sure you don't want to keep them out of universities. I know you object to the hijab etc. It marks people as "different." So if by "integration" you mean clothing...?
If so, I know we disagree on that. It does seem very superficial and a poor indicator of integration though.
You make an interesting point and this is precisely why I think intergration is the way to go, because true integration requires work on both parts, one side to welcome and accept others (which in my expereince Canadians do for the most part) but also the other side to respect the host countries and embrace and accept the way things are done here also. Everybody seperate doing there own thing will not work in the long run, it might work for small groups in isolated areas but not groups in large numbers, sooner or later that will create problems. Integration is the only way to go and to make sure there is a continuity of the good things that were created here. There is a reason people are coming here and not the other way around.
This idea that we all view things the same way is so wrong. People here might have given up on many of their own cultural elements but your dead wrong if you think people that are part of thousands of year old cultures will all of a sudden change for Canada. If anything they will impose their will here. It is extremely naive to think other wise. Integration is the only way to curb this.
To your last sentence - I'm a farmer. Do you know how expensive farmland is? If you aren't born into it or if you're not coming over with a couple of million dollars, you have no hope of farming.
To your last sentence - I'm a farmer. Do you know how expensive farmland is? If you aren't born into it or if you're not coming over with a couple of million dollars, you have no hope of farming.
I think he was trying to make a point. Did your family bring over millions of dollars when they came here? What about the first farmers and settlers period? Were they also millionaires? Why is farm land so expensive here?
You make an interesting point and this is precisely why I think intergration is the way to go, because true integration requires work on both parts, one side to welcome and accept others (which in my expereince Canadians do for the most part) but also the other side to respect the host countries and embrace and accept the way things are done here also. Everybody seperate doing there own thing will not work in the long run, it might work for small groups in isolated areas but not groups in large numbers, sooner or later that will create problems. Integration is the only way to go and to make sure there is a continuity of the good things that were created here. There is a reason people are coming here and not the other way around.
This idea that we all view things the same way is so wrong. People here might have given up on many of their own cultural elements but your dead wrong if you think people that are part of thousands of year old cultures will all of a sudden change for Canada. If anything they will impose their will here. It is extremely naive to think other wise. Integration is the only way to curb this.
I don't think for one minute people give up their culture when they immigrate. Neither do I think they should. I'm the granddaughter of immigrants. In my experience immigrants spend a lot of time saying how much better things were in the old country. In my grandparents' case that might be because they were refugees. But German immigrants who didn't come as refugees speak long and loudly about how much better the Germans do things.
Immigration works best for the grandchildren of immigrants. The children of immigrants are often caught in the vice grip of their parents' old country expectations and their new country’s ways.
Just my opinion from observing mostly Soviet and German immigrants.
And I'm still at a loss as to what "integration" means.
And I'm still at a loss as to what "integration" means.
That is when new immigrants begin to vote based on issues rather than for their old country tribal leader with the fiery eyes above the bushy beard but below the towel head.
I think he was trying to make a point. Did your family bring over millions of dollars when they came here? What about the first farmers and settlers period? Were they also millionaires? Why is farm land so expensive here?
What point? Farmers sell to other farmers, generally speaking. There is a limited amount of farmland available. You have to know what to do with the land. It's not something you just pick up. You usually grow up with it working on the family farm and observing how things are done. Nowadays you might also get an agricultural degree. In order to make ends meet since profit margins can be thin and are dependent on things you don't control, you often have a regular job in addition to farming. Your wife works off the farm and on the farm.
When my grandparents came over no one wanted farmland. They lived down a dirt road with no running water and an outhouse. Their conditions improved when my father bought a second farm with a nice house on it and they lived there rent-free.
My father went to college in Ontario. He had a full time job that often required his attention 7 days a week and he had to go in at midnight. My mother would feel afraid at night and bundled us up and we all went to my dad's workplace.
His farm started off with 5 acres and a loan from my mother's parents. He built it up, quit his job, and farmed full-time. It was a hard life. It is not for most people.
I've never made a study of farming in India but I doubt it compares to the high-tech farming in Canada today. The climate is different, the land is different. Money aside it would all be very different.
That is when new immigrants begin to vote based on issues rather than for their old country tribal leader with the fiery eyes above the bushy beard but below the towel head.
I guess no one is integrated then because a hay bale would win the Conservative vote in rural areas on the basis of hating Trudeau and voting for the neighbour they know from church.
I don't think for one minute people give up their culture when they immigrate. Neither do I think they should. I'm the granddaughter of immigrants. In my experience immigrants spend a lot of time saying how much better things were in the old country. In my grandparents' case that might be because they were refugees. But German immigrants who didn't come as refugees speak long and loudly about how much better the Germans do things.
Immigration works best for the grandchildren of immigrants. The children of immigrants are often caught in the vice grip of their parents' old country expectations and their new country’s ways.
Just my opinion from observing mostly Soviet and German immigrants.
And I'm still at a loss as to what "integration" means.
I think Luis gave a pretty good description of what "integration" means. It's a step or two removed from "assimilation" and usually kinder, gentler at that.
I'd actually say that Mennonites are a pretty good example of integration into Canadian society while maintaining some of their characteristics and not going full-out towards assimilation. Though of course some Mennonites are more fully assimilated into the Anglo-Canadian mainstream.
I think that the bar today for "integration" to Canadian society is considerably lower than it was when the ancestors of most of today's Canadian Mennonites arrived in the country.
Whether that's a good or bad thing is what we're debating right now.
I guess no one is integrated then because a hay bale would win the Conservative vote in rural areas on the basis of hating Trudeau and voting for the neighbour they know from church.
That's a good starting point. BTW, why would they hate Trudeau all of a sudden? Do tell.
The climate is different, the land is different. Money aside it would all be very different.
‘Asked on one occasion what was the best investment, Cato replied, “Good stockkeeping.” What came second? “Fairly good stock-keeping.” What came third? “Bad stock-keeping.” What came fourth? “Crops.” The next question was, “What about moneylending?” To which Cato said, “What about murder?”’ (Cicero, On Duties 2.25.89).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
