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The truth about universalism still remains that one has to have a biased view of certain words to shape other verses to fit what they need it to say rather than letting scripture shape the opinion.
You're obviously speaking from that of your own opinion, having a biased perception of word knowledge which adheres to your belief system.
Everyday when unbelievers hear the truth ... each day is a "chance"
THE GLORIOUS “NO CHANCE” THEOLOGY
So now we know that there are four “Christian” theological systems fighting, in their own particular way, using their own particular interpretations of the scriptures, to believe in, and teach others about what God will not do.
ET Arminianism, ET Calvinism, Annihilationism and Full Preterists/Covenant Creationism
And all four of them are supposedly “proven” to be based on the Bible.
Any theology that detracts from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE and teaches what God will not do instead of what God will do for everyone who needs that grace –- IMHO that theology is not worth the cyber space that it is written on.
Here is a snippet from it. "People say that Universal Reconciliation makes a "second chance" gospel. No, no, no! We do not have a "first chance" gospel, nor a "second chance" gospel. Salvation is not by "chance," it is by grace! Infinite grace!"
Guess which theology I shall spend the rest of my life believing and teaching?
I’ve just turned 72, so the time I have left to guide people to the reasons why I believe that the Bible teaches UR may not be all that long. But that’s ok, because I know the rest of my life will be joyful.
This is interesting. I would like to ask my fellow URers on here a question, for I can see, as well as most URers here, that Paul, throughout his life, had TWO beliefs, did he not?
I can see that BEFORE Christ showed Himself to Paul, he was a Pharasee and was "raised" a Pharisee? Would this not fall into Twin's catagory of "continual exposure" to a religion????
Furthermore, we can all admit (even Paul does, according to Twin, and I agree) that the revealing of JESUS to Paul was "abnormally born", can we not??
Although, I see in Twin's statement here, a Spiritual Truth that he himself may not be seeing. My questions to Twin are as followed....
Your statement says that Paul's "coming to faith in Christ" was special in some way, to which we all agree. But would he not be put in the same group as "Most" when in regards to "coming to faith" as a Pharisee (as in "most Pharisees"), that being "continual exposure" in his rearing?? You can admit that a lot of Christians are Christians because Mom and Dad are Christians, or are reared in a 'church going' life. Paul's father was a Pharisee and Paul was reared or 'schooled' to become a Pharisee. So is it anything "surprising" (special) at all that he became a Pharisee anymore than it is that a certain person becomes a "Christian" (or denomination thereof)??
His conversion ("coming to faith") to "another" belief was indeed, as you say, a "dramatic fassion". This we can't deny and this is where my question to my fellow URers comes in. I for one would describe my "conversion to UR" to be in a DRAMATIC FASSION. I also had a "past" belief that came about by 'continual exposure'. My questions would be the same to you.
Was your "change or conversion" to UR brought about in a "dramatic fassion" compared to your "be-coming a Christian" like "most people"??
And....
Did you, indeed, have a "past" belief/faith??
I think it would surprise Twin to hear your answers in accordance with his own statement.
Twin...do you see the similarities between the conflict between the Christendom/UR disagreement today and the disagreement back then (Phari/Sadu and Christ/followers)?? IMO, it is very revealing, for we URers are persecuted, in much of the same manner, by those of Christianity today. Not to mention we are VERY FEW and always have been. We "used to" believe in the same things you do (as in Saul being a Pharisee did) and NOW we see things totally different (as in Pual being SHOWN Christ). Back THEN, Saul "KILLED" the Christians by the "written epistles" of the "High Priest and Elders", and he did this LITERALLY!! Later he did the TOTALLY OPPOSITE, by "becoming" the "Hated". Nowadays, we URers are being killed "spiritually" in your mind (ET) by the very "epistles" you THINK you know (John 5:39), because we think TOTALLY OPPOSITE then you do, and our beliefs are somewhat "Hated". I truely think that if given the same governing factors as the "dark ages" had, then Christianity would KILL us LITERALLY today (of course, I speak this way because I live in the USA).
It is no doubt that you and others portray us in such manners as "stupid....ignorant....liars....evil....satanic... .fools.....idiots....etc.", for most of US used to do the same. This is NO MYSTERY to me, because now I think with a "different MIND" than you. Of this I do no boast, for you WILL be my brother in Christ. But it is all too understandable to me that we are treated in such manners. The carnal really does have "hatred" towards the spirit (Rom 8:7).
I hope that this answers you question ....
Except for Paul, no one is recorded coming to believe in Jesus in the same manner that Paul experienced, not even the other apostles. That was what so abnormal, so no it's not the same as everbody else.
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do you see the similarities between the conflict between the Christendom/UR disagreement today and the disagreement back then (Phari/Sadu and Christ/followers)??
Yes and no.
Yes...in that the
two will not concede when convictions not allow them.
Pharisees/Sadducee's like the UR'ers seem to be
always 1 step behind Jesus ready to base their view in opposition about words and their meaning,
use excuses about the authenticity and accuracy of Jesus' direct authority from God about who will not be allowed to enter heave
both can't\ wouldn't change their position through debat
both find Jesus offensive with the idea of the damnation of those who remained an unbeliever
Jesus didn't succumb to the demands of proof, just referenced the word. One day that proof of his authority to damn unbelievers will occure (at death or world's end ... which ever comes first)
No... in that
Pharisees/Sadducee's for the most part absolutly rejected Jesus as their savior and be damned vs. it is quite possible to correctly believe in Jesus as savior and maintain that UR is the truth and be saved
Those who maintain the UR position hopefully are not 1 step behind in order to find a way to literally kill their opposition
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As far as persecution .... christians in the US are not under the same persecution as other Christians in other countries that are prominently Muslim\Communist. But to say that because one doesn't accept catagorically UR is persecution of the UR'er, rather I would define it as the inability to convince those "being convinced and holding to the truth" and is frustrated by it.
Pharisees/Sadducee's for the most part absolutly rejected Jesus as their savior and be damned vs. it is quite possible to correctly believe in Jesus as savior and maintain that UR is the truth and be saved
Those who maintain the UR position hopefully are not 1 step behind in order to find a way to literally kill their opposition.
Rofl!!
I haven't laughed that hard in a while. Good timing, twin. I was feeling a little sad lately.
(P.S. Have you ever suffered great spiritual persecution coming from the church?)
rodgertutt...pcamps....God already accomplished what He said He would do.
It is just people aren't willing to accept the outcome.
Yeah like:
Isa 66:23 -
And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord.
Isa 45:23 -
I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath
Isa 40:5 -
The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, And all flesh shall see it together; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken."
Jer 31-(33) But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (34) No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
Luke 3-4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the Lord; Make His paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough ways smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.' "
I can't believe how many Universalists there are on this board. Cuz I don't think I've ever met one irl.
Anyways, very dangerous theology imo. Just my .02 cents.
I've met many - they have tended to be older people and they haven't called themselves Universalists. Instead, they've quietly said, in adult Sunday school class, "You know, I've been reading the Bible for a long time, and I'm not sure there really is a hell." They tend to look a little perplexed, but other adults (especially older ones) across the room will slowly nod their heads. Then, the moment passes and the class continues on.
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The glorious “no chance” theology
