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Juj, I have a different view of predestination that does not omit being predestinated or omit mans freewill choice.
Pre simply means before and destination means the destination you end up in.
We are given a choice between life and death
Life and death are the destinations man is headed for
But man is not headed for those destinations until after man has made his choice which road he will travel.
Thus these two road were predestined before man makes his choice, but man does not travel down either of those destinations until after man has made his choice.
The choice man makes determines which predestination man will travel.
Great poem Roger. It reminds me of Romans 8:20-21...
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
I don't understand your point. If you are saying Romans 8:20 is not referring to creation (ie. including all humans), I don't see it...
Are you saying Romans 8:20 is only referring to "nature"?
Or are you saying Romans 8:20 is only referring to some subset of humans, because 2 Cor 5:17 uses the word "creature" (ie. those who are a "new" creation")?
KJV says:
Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Clearly it is humans who have been subjected to VANITY. All humans are vain. And likewise, it is these same humans who will be delivered from this bondage and corruption. That's what it says.
GOD AND HIS PLANS TO SAVE ALL ACCORDING TO A LITERALLY (NOT INTERPRETIVELY) TRANSLATED BIBLE
First God chooses a firstfruits of election, a remnant chosen by grace out of each generation. Then, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, God saves all of the non-elect later, not by giving any of them a "chance," but by His sovereign grace.
Comment on "all humans are not vain."
Romans 3: 10-18 Notice it is referring to absolutely everyone. That is the human condition until God rescues us by His sovereign grace.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 10-25-2010 at 08:30 PM..
Reason: addition
I can relate to poor Timmy, I had an 'unsaved' best friend take his own life when he was 28 years old. I was tormented by that for years (back when I believed in ET).
I also had a work friend die in a motorcycle accident before I ever witnessed to him. More torment. If only I had the nerve to talk to him about Jesus but I put it off.
If you believe in ET, I guess your Timmy scenario seems very plausible.
Thank God I've been rescued from that awful bondage.
And maybe UR was your way out of a guilty conscience....
GOD AND HIS PLANS TO SAVE ALL ACCORDING TO A LITERALLY (NOT INTERPRETIVELY) TRANSLATED BIBLE
First God chooses a firstfruits of election, a remnant chosen by grace out of each generation. Then, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, God saves all of the non-elect later, not by giving any of them a "chance," but by His sovereign grace.
Comment on "all humans are not vain."
Romans 3: 10-18 Notice it is referring to absolutely everyone. That is the human condition until God rescues us by His sovereign grace.
GOD AND HIS PLANS TO SAVE ALL ACCORDING TO A LITERALLY (NOT INTERPRETIVELY) TRANSLATED BIBLE
First God chooses a firstfruits of election, a remnant chosen by grace out of each generation. Then, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, God saves all of the non-elect later, not by giving any of them a "chance," but by His sovereign grace.
Comment on "all humans are not vain."
Romans 3: 10-18 Notice it is referring to absolutely everyone. That is the human condition until God rescues us by His sovereign grace.
That's all right...I don't need any other source for God except the Bible...I study the Bible in the Greek and Hebrew...
And maybe UR was your way out of a guilty conscience....
And in any case, if you ask me, anyone who is profesing out of one side of their mouth that they love their enemies, and then professing out of the other side of their mouth that they believe Eternal Torment or even Annihilation is true justice, should have a guilty conscience.
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God and his plans according to the bible
