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If you believe that Christ is our only mediator and advocate, then it's really hard to say that Mary is co-intercessor, something John Paul II kind of whipped out a few years ago.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be flippant about it. But since Matthew offers substantial evidence that Mary did indeed have sexual relationships with Joseph after Christ's birth, then I'm not sure how you can make the case for perpetual virginity.
The other thing to consider is this? Is a virgin birth truly necessary? After all, virgin births were commonly ascribed during that period. Augustus Caesar, a half-dozen Egyptian kings, Assyrian, Babylonian figures, Buddha, Zoraster, etc., were all credited with virgin births long before Christ to demonstrate their extraordinary importance. What if Matthew and Luke co-opted the historical tradition 60-70 years after Christ's birth in order to show Christ's fulfillment of prophecy in Isaiah? And how come Paul is silent on the matters, as is Mark and John?
To me, the question of the virgin birth is cloudy and, in reality, a distraction from the central question of Christ's nature. I mean, if somebody unearthed a copy of Luke tomorrow that antedated all previous versions and didn't contain the Magnificat, would it affect your faith in Him one iota?
Jesus CHrist is our only mediator; he's the one who says it both ways; He's the one and only, but he is also there when you need him in spite f others failing you. That 's why the blessed virgin Mary determines the rest of the difference on sort of the abstract principled ways of believing that first ideal. She is the difficult word for avoiding materialism. At least I think so for Her as the generalization for explaining uncertainty in Nature.
You need to take several courses in theological history. Best of luck to you. Sincerely.
It seems I continue to hit a nerve with you. I am relatively new to C-D so am unaccustomed with this forum for the most part and don't want to cause conflict. I did not intentionally mean to provoke reactions though it appears the topic of Mary is somewhat controversial based on some of the responses. Also, as you point out, I am theologically ignorant and must rely heavily on what I read on the Internet. I do, however, read extensively before I post and try as much as possible to document what I assert with historic confessional documentation. I did recently share with another poster that I have been approached by my parish pastor about studying for the diaconate which is a 2 year commitment of instruction before being consecrated by the bishop. So if I decide to pursue becoming a lay deacon I will be exposed to thorough biblical and dogmatic instruction in the Lutheran faith.
I'm not sure what you are referring to about my needing "theological history" courses but everything I post is based on what I have read. For example, the Lutheran church of Scandinavia never rejected episcopal succession and the bishops and archbishops can trace their uninterrupted line back to the early church. Here's some information about this:
"Some Protestant churches, such as Anglicans (including those known in the U.S. as Episcopalians), the Church of Sweden, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvija, do have Apostolic Succession (also known as the "historic episcopate")." Apostolic Succession - Mainstream Christianity
"The Church of Sweden, which is Lutheran in its confessional theology, has maintained the historic episcopate in an unbroken apostolic succession and the ordering of priests by an episcopal laying-on of hands up to the present day. The separation of the Church of Sweden from the See of Rome has, therefore, many parallels in the history of the Church of England. Indeed, the C. of S. like the C. of E. has a very traditional ‘feel’ about it with its many medieval buildings, altars, works of sacred art, mass vestments, mitres, croziers, etc., and this traditionalism in the C. of S. is still obvious in the role of the parish priest even in a highly secularized, modern Sweden". The Experience of the Church of Sweden
The comments about how immigrate Lutherans were received by other Protestants is based on articles I have read and that American Lutherans attempted to fit it was a combination of factors. But since you are from the Missouri Synod background you might be interested in the movement to return to historic episcopacy by Missouri Synod Lutherans like other Lutherans in America, namely the ELCA have done: The First Reorganization of the Missouri Synod, 1839 — Lutheran Forum
I was born and raised Lutheran. Lutherans do not pray to Mary. Yes, they believe that Mary was a virgin but Lutherans do not pray to saints. In fact, my mother has been a Lutheran for 76 years, despises the Roman Catholic church and does not believe in saints or praying to anyone but Jesus and God, who she believes are one in the same.
I am Catholic and have never "despised" any other religion or church. I find that many feelings of hatred are due to lack of understanding and overgeneralizations.
We revere Mary as all mothers should be honored; especially the mother of Jesus.
Many confuse Catholic traditions with doctrine.
I am Catholic and have never "despised" any other religion or church. I find that many feelings of hatred are due to lack of understanding and overgeneralizations.
We revere Mary as all mothers should be honored; especially the mother of Jesus.
Many confuse Catholic traditions with doctrine.
I pay homage to Mary just as all mothers should be honored...more so with her, the mother of Jesus, who is the source of the "Good News" according to those who believe.
And I'm not even catholic, nor do I belong to any "religion."
Mary rocks! [lightening the mood] OK...I am Catholic and believe she is the most blessed women ever to exist....period. I honor her because God chose her above all women, Jesus honored her and she said "yes" to a most difficult question.
That said, I completely understand why many Christians denominations do not believe the various marian doctrines since they are not found in the bible. Only those Christian faiths that incorporate "tradition" would have some or all of the marian beliefs found in the RCC and/or orthodox churches.
Is it wrong or right to pray to her asking for intercession? Depends on what you believe.
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