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Its God's Love that moved Him to choose His People in Christ and make them a special people above all others deut 14:
2For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
This is a exclusive Love for His chosen ! The Chosen are all those regardless of race, who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation eph 1:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
God Loved His People so much, He ensured that they will be made Holy and Without blame before Him in Love.. Thats what God's Love does, it ensures this outcome..
So, we see specifically that God's Love causes Him to choose a people. That would lead us to understand, that the world of Jn 3 16 consist of those so loved and Chosen of God..
Gods Love = Chosen ones to be recipients and benefactors of it.
Those God Loved, also is specifically designated His Church eph 5:
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also lovedthe church, and gave himself for it;
Now, is the church everyone in the world without exception ? It would be foolish to say yes to that question..
The word church is the greek word
ek klēsia:
It simply means to call out, the called out ones..
1 pet 2:
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
The church has been called out of darkness, and secondly, into His Marvelous light..
Its not a half done process. Its a calling out of and into.
These are the objects of God's Love in the world, the called out ones, the Church of Jesus Christ.
Paul calls them the called as in ROM 1:6
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
ROM 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
ROM 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Now nowhere in scripture can these things apply to all mankind without exception.
The world that God Loved is a called world. Remember one of the definitions for the word world kosmos is:
any aggregate orgeneral collection of particulars of any sort
So the called of Jesus Christ as in ROM 1:6
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
So the collection of the called of Jesus Christ is the world God Loved !
So, we see specifically that God's Love causes Him to choose a people. That would lead us to understand, that the world of Jn 3 16 consist of those so loved and Chosen of God..
Gods Love = Chosen ones to be recipients and benefactors of it.
Those God Loved, also is specifically designated His Church eph 5:
25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also lovedthe church, and gave himself for it;
Now, is the church everyone in the world without exception ? It would be foolish to say yes to that question..
The word church is the greek word
ek klēsia:
It simply means to call out, the called out ones..
1 pet 2:
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
The church has been called out of darkness, and secondly, into His Marvelous light..
Its not a half done process. Its a calling out of and into.
These are the objects of God's Love in the world, the called out ones, the Church of Jesus Christ.
Paul calls them the called as in ROM 1:6
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
ROM 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
ROM 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Now nowhere in scripture can these things apply to all mankind without exception.
The world that God Loved is a called world. Remember one of the definitions for the word world kosmos is:
any aggregate orgeneral collection of particulars of any sort
So the called of Jesus Christ as in ROM 1:6
Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
So the collection of the called of Jesus Christ is the world God Loved !
This just simply cannot be denied !
Sure it can be denied, the same way you deny that it is likely that God hates you.
If God Loved all men without exception, whats the Point of Jesus telling His disciples this ? Jn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.
If God Loved all men without exception, whats the Point of Jesus telling His disciples this ? Jn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.
Of course it means something, it is how understanding is revealed.
If your doctrine is correct, no one can actually know if God loves them in the first place. You can't actually know that God loves you but hates someone else, you can only delude yourself into thinking you must be loved by God, but no verse you can post will actually reveal that he loves YOU.
The verses you post are actually a promise. Combined with the rest of the whole bible promises everyone that he loves them and no matter how it seems now, they will be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
Your doctrine carries no promise that you can actually demonstrate WHO is and WHO isn't including yourself.
I admire your tenacity, Phaze. God does the calling . . . not our supposed choices. Why would God not call ALL of His children. I know they exist among human fathers . . . since I have encountered them in my life . . . but ask yourself what kind of father does not love ALL his children. Can you really see our Father God being that kind?
If God Loved all men without exception, whats the Point of Jesus telling His disciples this ? Jn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
If God already Loved everyone in the world without exception, then this statement by Christ was a waste of time, and not really meaningful, since all who are in the world breaking God's commandments are Loved too.
"Jesus hates the little children, most of the children in the world. Red and yellow, black and white, their all wicked in his sight. Jesus hates the children of the world!" The spirit of Phelps
You gotta' love that good ol' false religion! Feels good, smells good, tastes good, IS GOOD!
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-09-2011 at 09:19 AM..
If your doctrine is correct, no one can actually know if God loves them in the first place
We are not talking about that, Many of them God Loves dont know it yet, however Jesus gives no assurance to any who are not keeping His commandments, that He or the Father Loves them. If it did not matter, then it would be no meaning to make such a statement. Ones doctrine being correct has nothing to do with God Loving one. God Loved His People when they were enemies and their doctrine was wrong. So your statment is irrevelant.
Quote:
The verses you post are actually a promise.
A Promise contingent on the present tense of keeping His commandments and Loving Him !
Quote:
Combined with the rest of the whole bible promises everyone that he loves them and no matter how it seems now,
Cant be, thats you saying that, not scripture. Rom 9:13 confutes that. So does Ps 5:5
Quote:
they will be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
More error , there are many God has given over to believe a Lie 2 Thess 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believealie:
We are not talking about that, Many of them God Loves dont know it yet, however Jesus gives no assurance to any who are not keeping His commandments, that He or the Father Loves them. If it did not matter, then it would be no meaning to make such a statement. Ones doctrine being correct has nothing to do with God Loving one. God Loved His People when they were enemies and their doctrine was wrong. So your statment is irrevelant.
It is quite relevant because keeping his commendments under the tenants of your doctrine still does not demonstrate an assurance that he loves you. The pharasees kept what they believed were the commandments of God.
Quote:
A Promise contingent on the present tense of keeping His commandments and Loving Him !
Again, you cannot demonstrate that gaurantees his love based on what you believe. God enables people to learn to keep his commandments because people ONLY will do that BECAUSE God loved them FIRST.
Now under the tenants of your doctrine God does not decide who he loves based upon what you do, he has chosen who he loves before they ever did anything at all.
Quote:
Cant be, thats you saying that, not scripture. Rom 9:13 confutes that. So does Ps 5:5
Scripture has words and each of us has determined what we believe it means by applying a context that we agree with, it is as simple as that, your statement here is a fallacy, implying that what you believe IS the truth and mine is not, but you cannot demonstrate that assertion, only claim it. What I am saying is that your doctrine inherantly has no assurances for WHO God loves or don't by the very nature of the context that interprets scripture.
Quote:
More error , there are many God has given over to believe a Lie 2 Thess 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believealie
Which could be you, you could believe that God loves you which based upon your doctrine could be the lie.
More error , there are many God has given over to believe a Lie 2 Thess 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believealie:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood
Which could be you, you could believe that God loves you which based upon your doctrine could be the lie.
Indeed, it could be that savedbysovereigngrace is believing a lie yet God will still save him. Or if we go with his doctrine, it could be that savedbysovereigngrace believes a lie and simply won't be saved.
But regardless, just because God sends people a delusion so they believe a lie does not preclude the possibility that He will save them later.
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