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Geez all these arguments, and none of you willing to hear what those in the hells have to say?
Its really quite simple.
Its not as if the Bible is against talking to spirit, it simply cautions you that you may not know who you are talking to. That's much the same as these boards really.
Now if you do listen to what thousands of dead guys have told us:
1. Hell exists
2. Its a place as well as a condition
3. Its not nice, and its level of not-niceness varies from dreadful to pretty much like some places here. But it has no fire and brimstone, and its PURPOSE is CORRECTION not PUNISHMENT.
4. You can get out, but its not that easy, and hence the current word in the bible for "eternal" is far more accurately transcribed as "long-lasting"
5. You find all sorts in hell. Jesus did not die for our sins, we all pay our own way. Poor old Jerry Falwell is there currently. Many American presidents have ended up there.
This coming from someone who believes God created some people solely for the purpose of eternally tormenting them.
Obviously you did not read the in context Scripture I posted...It is obvious that the author misapplied those three verses...Just because one takes a phrase out of a whole verse AND out of context does not mean that one can apply it as one wills...For those that check up on him will see the Truth of what the Author is attempting...
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone actually prefer to suffer forever rather than eventually reach out for the salvation that God has provided. I'm 73 years old now.
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell†nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,†and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
The grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men. Tit. 2:11 (NAS)
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, (KJV)
Wow!...Huge difference in meanings between the two...
Here is YLT:
Tit 2:11 For the saving grace of God was manifested to all men,
Seems to say what the KJV says, that the Saving Grace of God appeared...It is the Grace appearing to all men, it says nothing regarding Effectual Salvation of all men...
LITV:
Tit 2:11 For the saving grace of God has appeared to all men,
GNT
Tit 2:11 ᾿Επεφάνη γὰρ η χάρις του Θεου η σωτήριος πασιν ανθρώποις.
G2014
επιφαίνω
epiphainō
ep-ee-fah'ee-no
From G1909 and G5316; to shine upon, that is, become (literally) visible or (figuratively) known: - appear, give light.
G1063
γάρ
gar
gar
A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, seeing, then, therefore, verily, what, why, yet.
G3588
ο, η, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
G5485
χάρις
charis
khar'-ece
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).
G3588
ο, η, τό
ho hē to
ho, hay, to
The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
G2316
θεός
theos
theh'-os
Of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively a magistrate; by Hebraism very: - X exceeding, God, god [-ly, -ward].
G4992
σωτήριον
sōtērion
so-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of the same as G4991 as (properly concrete) noun; defender or (by implication) defence: - salvation.
G3956
πας
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
G444
ανθρωπος
anthrōpos
anth'-ro-pos
From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.
Geez all these arguments, and none of you willing to hear what those in the hells have to say?
Its really quite simple.
Its not as if the Bible is against talking to spirit, it simply cautions you that you may not know who you are talking to. That's much the same as these boards really.
Now if you do listen to what thousands of dead guys have told us:
1. Hell exists
2. Its a place as well as a condition
3. Its not nice, and its level of not-niceness varies from dreadful to pretty much like some places here. But it has no fire and brimstone, and its PURPOSE is CORRECTION not PUNISHMENT.
4. You can get out, but its not that easy, and hence the current word in the bible for "eternal" is far more accurately transcribed as "long-lasting"
5. You find all sorts in hell. Jesus did not die for our sins, we all pay our own way. Poor old Jerry Falwell is there currently. Many American presidents have ended up there.
Yes very serious. Not sure of your background, but not only was Jesus into channeling, the NT still tells you what to do in this regard. Since the beginnings of time, dead folks have talked to living folks. Its only since sometime in the last 2000 years, in the Christian dominated world, that the notion has come about this is somehow not a good thing. Even the Koran is a channeled book.
If you have no experience of such books, other than the bits one would find in any spiritual book, which might be called "inspired", like revelations, then you are in no position to judge. However, just because something is channeled, does not make it accurate, just like ANY source really.
Last edited by Geoff_in_Aus; 10-16-2011 at 08:46 PM..
This coming from someone who believes God created some people solely for the purpose of eternally tormenting them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
I'm sorry...What did you say...I wasn't listening?....
Like a child covering their ears saying, "la la la." You just don't want to hear it because it's the truth of calvinism. The doctrine of calvinism boils down to what I said above.
Like a child covering their ears saying, "la la la." You just don't want to hear it because it's the truth of calvinism. The doctrine of calvinism boils down to what I said above.
Maybe if you'd take those BS filters off, you could see the truth about calvinism.
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"My Greek scholars are more relieble than yours"
